Kheng Lian Ho, Managing Partner at Turn Capital, and Jeremy Au discussed:
1. Law to Turn Capital Managing Partner: Kheng’s disciplined childhood as a 11-year old Singapore national badminton athlete laid the foundation for her early legal carer For six years, she practiced restructuring and cross-border litigation in Singapore and Hong Kong, drawn to the intellectual challenges but stifled by routine and limited personal connection. Seeking more impactful, people-centered work, Kheng left her law career to do angel investing, be a venture partner at Vectr Ventures in Hong Kong, facilitated deal sourcing and capital markets, and founded the Open Circles community to connect entrepreneurs across Southeast Asia. Building on her extensive network and operational expertise, Kheng co-founded Turn Capital alongside Joseph Phua and Shang Koo. With a focus on acquiring and transforming underperforming consumer tech companies, Turn Capital leverages 40 combined years of experience to revitalize these businesses and guide them back to profitability.
2. Buying Flash Coffee Thailand & Turnaround: Her fund strategy is a. acquired former VC-backed startups plagued by high costs and inefficiencies in social, entertainment, media, and e-commerce sectors b. limited number of acquisitions for deep hands-on business engagement and c. balanced goal of 3-5x returns over five years. Their first acquisition, Flash Coffee Thailand, showcases this method: by reducing the original 46 outlets by half, the team swiftly brought operations to break-even, paving the way for sustainable expansion and long-term growth. Acquiring majority operational control is key to execute rightsizing and achieve profitability within nine months. She shares that they bring an external, objective eye, vs. founders, board and executives that may not be able to reach a consensus to execute the turnaround internally.
3. Emerging Fund Manager Advice: By 2023, Turn Capital successfully raised over $20 million, backed by prominent investors such as Kee Lock from Vertex Ventures, Peng Ong from Monk’s Hill Ventures, and Twitch cofounder Kevin Lin. Kheng underscored the importance of a distinct and well-defined investment strategy to stand out in the competitive market. Kheng leveraged her established network to attract high-profile investors, emphasizing the value of relationships cultivated over time. She recommends first-time fund managers tap into their existing networks, especially those who have financially benefited from past collaborations, as they often become key supporters during fundraising. Unlike her prior advisory roles where rejection felt indirect, leading as a general partner made setbacks personal, demanding strong emotional resilience. To maintain balance amidst the pressures of high-stakes investing, Kheng incorporates daily hot yoga, meditation, and the support of close friends into her routine.
Jeremy and Kheng also discussed how her personal identity has shifted over time, what it meant to turn away from the legal career ladder and what she likes about being a fund manager.
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(01:05) Jeremy Au:
Hey, really good to hang out with you. Excited to share your story.
(01:09) Kheng Lian Ho:
Hi, Jeremy. Good morning.
(01:11) Jeremy Au:
Yeah. Well, it's nice hanging out through our mutual connection, which is Jeff Lonsdale coming in from Vietnam and America at his social party with Sao Lonsdale. And it's good to see you again at a recent Raffles Junior College Alumni Business Network. Okay, someone's screaming at me for the wrong title of it right now.
(01:29) Kheng Lian Ho:
Raffles Business Network, RBN.
(01:33) Jeremy Au:
Raffles Business Network, RBN. There we go. So we got to see Tan Min Liang, the Razer founder, as well as a few other folks from Love Benito and Ninja Van, like Lai Chang Wen, also speaking. So yeah, it was interesting to see that, and I was like, Hey, we should jump on a podcast because you're doing some cool stuff with tech. But yeah, could you share a little bit about yourself?
(01:51) Kheng Lian Ho:
Hi, good morning. My name is Kheng Lian, and I'm one of the general partners at Turning Capital. And why Jeremy Singh? We have very unique strategies because we actually buy controlling stakes in stressed, underperforming, growing consumer technology companies, and we turn them profitable. And we're able to do that because of the combined 40 years of experience my partners and I have because we've built successful companies like 17Live group.
My co-GPs are Joseph Phua, the founder of Paktor and 17Live and CEO there. And Shang Koo, who has been his CFO for the entire duration as well. When we came out and we were looking at the market after our listing last year, I've, I did think about, Hey, let's go raise a VC fund. But because of the expertise we have, it's better to just go pick up infrastructure and actually build on top of it because not every team has the expertise that the three of us combine and produce.
(02:49) Jeremy Au:
Fantastic. So let's go back to the beginning, maybe back since we went to the same school, Raffles Junior College, but you were such an athlete. You were in badminton, you were in long jump. You were in triple jump. So what was going on?
(02:59) Kheng Lian Ho:
I was actually a badminton captain.
(03:03) Jeremy Au:
What?
(03:04) Kheng Lian Ho:
So, yeah, I think this is like the dirty little secret for the Asian thing, especially when I'm in the U S and people ask, what sport did you do? I was you know badminton? The one with feathers, that shuttlecock. So anyway, I was part of the National Youth Badminton Team representing Singapore in Malaysia and Indonesia since I was the age of, what, 11 years old? All the way through.
(03:24) Jeremy Au:
What? 11 years old? You're crushing it from back then? Wow.
(03:28) Kheng Lian Ho:
This is my party trick, whenever you have these dinners and they ask for like that little secret people don't know about. Damn, I just ball. Can't use this trick anymore.
(03:35) Jeremy Au:
So you're a very strong athlete and you choose to do law. Could you share more about that?
(03:39) Kheng Lian Ho:
Yeah, I was always good at English language and I used to like general paper, GP in school. So it's a little bit more of an argumentative essay. I'm not argumentative person, but I always like to see things from both sides. So going into law was a very natural progression also because we have been trained to move and prioritize excellence. So at a point, especially if you look at how Singapore has trained us to want to become a professional, either a doctor or lawyer, accountant, I wasn't good at those, so I was definitely going to become a lawyer and worked very hard to, to get there and, practiced actually for six years, five in Singapore, one in Hong Kong.
(04:23) Jeremy Au:
Yeah. And you did the early career in law after that, and you started drifting towards technology. So what was going through your perspective? Were you like, I hate my life or, law is not general paper. So what's, what's going on here?
(04:35) Kheng Lian Ho: Let me put it this way. I enjoy the intellectual challenge of law. I did not enjoy the bureaucracy of it. So, I used to be a restructuring, insolvency, and cross border litigation lawyer. When we went to court, it was the small mundane things like, Hey, having to ask for an extension in court, I had to spend three days drafting this document to go argue for that three day extension. I was like, this is not the best use of time and resources. And the reason why I always went back into the ring was because I just wanted to keep winning. Is that necessarily what drives my career and gives me fulfillment, right? So I needed to step back and I studied law because I wanted to. I enjoyed it, but I always thought, let me try it out and we'll see where I go with it.
At the three year mark, I evaluated at a five year mark. I evaluated and it really became a matter of intrinsically, I never really felt like a lawyer. I wasn't that person sitting on the toilet, reading your law books, which people were doing. I was able to identify my superpower very early and a superpower identified through different means, different ways, which is realizing what is that one supernatural thing that I do that other people just don't. And that really was bringing people together, connecting and really, truly bring people to collaborate. So I was always that nucleus in my social groups. I actually organized the Raffles Junior College After Prom party. I did a lot of like, I did a lot of JC parties as well.
(06:01) Jeremy Au:
You're the cool group. That's what it is.
(06:03) Kheng Lian Ho:
So then, with that type of, knowing myself and what I enjoyed, I really like human connection and people law didn't fully give me that. So when I knew that, hey, if I could take my natural ability and apply it to something else, I could excel a lot further than I could than in my legal career. But what was it? I wasn't sure. So after six years of practice, I was in Hong Kong, I left industry, and I wasn't exactly sure what to do next. I explored and friends in New York invited me to co-invest into a startup. And I was like, okay, I stepped back. whoa. Okay. The good thing is it will open up a completely new industry that I didn't know about. It will open up a completely new network that I didn't have access to. And thirdly, I strongly believe this in my life, which is, you have to take the opportunities that come and just try.
So that's the reason why I was like, okay, I'm going toco-invest.And I came in as a super angel. I went into the company itself in New York, learned the ropes, helped them from fundraising to business development, tried to expand it out in Asia. And that's where I really learned, oh, what startup life was coming from law. Where things are very fixed and, oh, this is what I'm supposed to do. My first few meetings with the CEO then was okay, so what am I supposed to do? And then I realized it was the wild, wild west. Startups of the wild, wild west. No one knows what is the right way. And so it was a discussion and that's where I learned. I loved it.
(07:33) Jeremy Au:
Wow. And when you're going through this, transition, were there any skills you had to learn versus skills you had to unlearn?
(07:38) Kheng Lian Ho:
That you will always have to be comfortable with uncertainty. Think about it. I was a product with the conveyor belt system. My career path was paved for me and I just needed to walk down it. So one very big thing I needed to unlearn is certainty and learn uncertainty.
(07:55) Jeremy Au:
So you obviously confronted a lot of uncertainty because you built many different kind of like initiatives and companies in terms of both the venture capital as well as kind of like the startup side. So could you kind of share a little bit more about kind of like that set of experiences that you had in technology before Turn Capital?
(08:11) Kheng Lian Ho:
So, with that first foray into tech in New York, I was later invited to join a venture capital fund in Hong Kong called Vectr Ventures as a venture partner. At Vectr, that's where I also learned capital side of things, investment side of things, where I was deal sourcing, doing due diligence with the team, and ultimately, because I'm a venture partner, I really got a lot of leg room to go around the world and take up what I can.
So next interesting turning point was when my current co-GP Joseph Phua, he was fundraising for his then company, Paktor. So when he first started Paktor and he hit a little bit of a snag and he came to me, I was still a lawyer at that time. He asked, Hey, can you help me fundraise? As a lawyer, what do I know about fundraising? And I was like, okay, sure I can try. So one interesting fact is the first outside check he got was from a group of lawyers from Hong Kong. And then when he was closing, so that was the seed for the outside check. And then when he was closing his series A round where Vertex led, he called, he gave me a call again. He was like, Hey, can you help me close the round? I was like, Oh, okay. I remember how I did it. At this point, I left law. I had joined Vectr. Okay, let me try. I very quickly closed him $3 million within two weeks. He only had to speak to four investors and two invested. And so it became a, Oh, I actually can fundraise.
And the ball started rolling. It was wonderful because after that, Vertex Ventures, who was his anchor investor actually asked me, Hey, would you like to help introduce investors to us? This was because they were raising Southeast Asia fund, which now, but it was the first time they were taking outside capital because previously it was all with Temasek and I sat down with Kee-Lock, from Vertex, your managing partner there. And I relished the opportunity. And so I went into it and I started to introduce my network to Vertex as well. Thankfully, there were successful LPs that committed and that validated for myself that this can actually be a thing. So after that, I would say that I was very much on the more of a ninja in the space.
If you knew me, you knew people that I worked with, the deals kept coming and I only worked with deals that people and brands that people already knew about. That's why I worked with Coffee Meets Bagel. I met the, Dawoon and Arun and I was like, sure, you're a good brand. You're well known. You have great revenue and great user base. Let me help you as well. And that also led to me helping the Chainsmokers, the Grammy nominated electronic music DJs who were raising their VC fund at the time. So I ended up having the opportunity to fundraise with Stardust Venture Capital Funds. With my experience in the US, I had access to SpaceX in 2015 then at 2018, and this was direct onto the cap table. So I actually have a vehicle with a partner, which is direct on the cap table. So these are the opportunities that I was exposed to and I was also able to bring back to Asia. So this is the first part of building collective advisory partners where I was able to invest. I did some internal investing. I put SPVs together. I was fundraising for sales and venture capital funds, and then I started acquiring companies
And then when you talk about the initiators, I started Open Circles. Open Circles is a think tank. It's a retreat and conference that we have led in Bali as well as Mongolia, and we have collaborated with the Singapore National Youth Council to create one of Singapore's first youth entrepreneurship conferences. So this comes from the heart, building community, bringing people together, which is the superpower that I identified earlier. And it all came together because I'm now able to build this ecosystem where I'm, I can leverage off investors, entrepreneurs, non profits and creators that I bring together at Open Circles, fundraising skills, the restructuring law skills from early on to all culminate to Turn Capital right now.
(11:51) Jeremy Au:
So tell me more about Turn Capital because you're about acquiring undervalued consumer brands and making them profitable and so forth. But why is it attractive? Is it even attractive? How do you think about it?
(12:02) Kheng Lian Ho:
So we want control over companies instead of just investing and hoping for the best or trying to help. You don't see this very often where operating team comes out and wants to keep building. So that's where we thrive, and that's why the strategy completely makes sense to us. And it's also the perfect combination and confluence of these factors. I've been friends with Joseph for about 25 years now. We met each other when we were, he was in Huaqiang, I was in Raffles, and we kept in contact. And that's why, when he did his Paktor, I helped him fundraise and I did his fundraise from pre-seed all the way pre-IPO at 17Like group.
So we already knew how we worked together very well. Now that we're acquiring stressed companies, my restructuring skillset actually comes in useful. His operational skillset comes in useful. Shang's financial skillset comes in super useful. That brings us together and we're actually able to identify and then help these companies that we acquire first get back to break even, positive unit economics, and then we're able to scale profitably. So that's how we think about what we're able to produce in the world right now.
(13:15) Jeremy Au:
Could you share a little bit more about how you get about to turn them around? I mean, obviously restructuring the cost structure is about restarting growth, is about streamlining geographies. How do you think about that process for you to actually actualize that value?
(13:29) Kheng Lian Ho:
So that process is actually one step back at the deal sourcing part and our evaluation. We're very strict. We're very specific. We are concentrated portfolio strategy. I'm only doing three to five companies in my fund and my fund is only a five year fund life. I am acquiring companies in the series BCD stage. Therefore, we can have such a slightly more compressed timeline. So when we are evaluating companies, the important things we look for, number one, are you in the consumer tech space that we ourselves can parachute in if needed? So that we're able to cut off another risk. Okay. So anything in social, in entertainment, in media, in e-commerce, these are things that we're very good at and we can come in, handle.
Two, do you have more than $5,000,000 in revenue, $5,000,000 to $10,000,000 in revenue, because I'm here to look for a company that has product market fit, revenue. What didn't work well is possibly overspending, management, just inexperience, that again, we can come into whether you're in Asia, so that we can bring in our experience here as well. And then two other things, evaluating a company's bottom line. when I say this, when I evaluate a company, can I bring you back to break even within the first six to nine months acquiring you? In order to do that? Can I trim the fat? Can I reduce your HR redundancies? Are we able to move headquarters around? Are we able to change our operating systems to make them more efficient? Because you have to break even within six to nine months. So we are already planning these. And one of our conversations, part of the due diligence sometimes with the founders, is to go through the entire team and go, kind of needs to be cut. And we talk through that.
And the last point that we look at is, hey, where's the exit? So I think you're an early stage investor, always and have to think about that yet because we all understand our pivots. When our business, when I acquire a company, I already need to know where my exit comes from. I either need to know the strategic buyer or market that I can potentially list this on. So if I have evaluated these five criteria, then what you mentioned earlier about, Hey, how do you actually do the turnaround, is very risk managed and we're able to do it.
(15:43) Jeremy Au:
That's great. From your perspective, why is it that people can't do it themselves, right? I mean, if you're talking about, obviously, a large company that has been around for 20, 30 years, maybe it's slow, maybe it's kind of like caught flat footed by technology trends. For myself, I've worked alongside Bain Capital. I've done M&A, you know, realization of their value. So, I think it makes sense for large companies, but, for startups, and these technology companies, they're supposed to be leaner, more lightweight, on top of technology. So why is it that they can't actualize that value or do those things? Because shouldn't they be able to sit down and say, okay, let's cut the team in half or if these are the leadership that needs to go. So why is it that an external party has to do it versus themselves being able to do it.
(16:21) Kheng Lian Ho:
Because you brought up external party versus internal, then I would say one is sometimes emotion. People do get a little bit too attached to the product, the team versus the external party who comes in, I can be very objective about it. We can be very objective with this needs to go, that needs to go, this needs to be done. And we're able to take a slightly more heavy hand at it. Secondly, it is sometimes, I would say, inexperience because you do need to weigh between scalability versus profitability. it's not an easy balance to, to make. And we have made many mistakes while trying to build 17 up. So I think it's these different factors that come into play and allows us to help a company more than they can potentially do on their own.
(17:02) Jeremy Au:
So your first deal was the buyout of the Thai unit of Flash Coffee, which was a venture backed, coffee chain. They closed down their Singapore side, and then they also are still operating as well. So could you share a little bit more about, what was your rationale and thinking behind this transaction?
(17:16) Kheng Lian Ho:
When we first came into contact with Flash, it was actually in March, April 2023, when its Taiwan unit was getting shut down and we evaluated the opportunity and we decided not to take it because cost structuring issues that we knew we couldn't fix ourselves. So when we heard about the Singapore unit being in trouble, we re-engaged with founders. During that period, we looked across the board to see which other properties were able to acquire or the entire company for that matter. And we had to be again, very strict on ourselves to know, Hey, in six, nine months, what are we going to be able to do? Which ones are we able to bring back to profitability? Based on our own analysis, because of high rent in Hong Kong, Seoul, where their assets set, we weren't going to be able to do it. Thailand, we had an opportunity to do that. So 10 months on, we have actually managed to bring our stores to break even already, which is very much according to plan. If you want to ask what we did at that period, we did acquire 46 stores, but we have descaled down to half of it, and now where we're at break even, we're scaling up again and reopening new stores.
(18:27) Jeremy Au:
Fantastic. So, from your perspective, a lot of people look at a coffee space and say like, this is not a venture backable business and some of the struggles that people have had kind of like that multiple doesn't exist. They need to build it in a way that's much more sustainable with a much more realistic or grounded valuation multiple. So that's one piece. Obviously, the different geographies as a different dimension, right? the Thailand versus Taiwan versus Indonesia story is different as well. So how do you look at this vertical from your perspective?
(18:53) Kheng Lian Ho:
We look at it because what we promise our LPs is three to five X within our five year fund life. So I'm not here trying to build this up to a 10X or unicorn status. We don't have that pressure. And therefore coffee space, this business model actually works very well for us.
(19:09) Jeremy Au:
Yeah, makes a lot of sense. So, I think really saying that implies that, the industry, it's easier to build that business from a 3x to 5x kind of growth story over five years, which is about what, 30%, 40% every year, growth. So, I'm just kind of curious, what, why are you looking for now? What are you hunting for now? Like, you need more deals than a hopper?
(19:28) Kheng Lian Ho:
Yes, so we very much willing and able. So we've raised about two thirds of our fund already. So we're very ready to deploy and we are looking for the next company. So again, anything in social and entertainment and media, we have looked at fast fashion. We have recently looked at another consumer technology brand, in the dental space, even. So we are open to continue exploring. We look at edutech. We continued to look into dating because that's also one of the spaces that we know. So we do welcome founders, founders who have friends, VCs who have portfolio companies, private credit funds who have portfolio companies that all need a little bit of assistance that Turn Capital can come in to be collaborative. We're not competitive. We're very collaborative.
(20:14) Jeremy Au:
So, do you feel like you're seeing more VCs entering your space or category? Because, one joke that we've been hearing around the VC poker groups is like, a lot of the VCs have felt burned doing those big swings or home runs. And, the joke is that a lot of Southeast Asian VCs are now becoming small cap private equity funds because of the way they're looking at kind of like very tech enabled consumer brands, because they feel like it's profitable, it's cashflow and so forth. And it's not going to necessarily be a high multiple, but it could be something that continues to be a small win. So do you see more competition or do you see it as more collaboration? How do you see that happening?
(20:50) Kheng Lian Ho:
I actually don't see the competition coming up. People talk about it. One, you need to want to be a heavy lifter. So this requires a lot of heavy lifting. And two, if you're a VC who has had operational experience building your own companies and you actually want to do the heavy lifting, then people will come into the space. Otherwise, there's been talk, but you do need that perfect confluence of an operator, an operating team that wants to keep operating. There's only so much, so you don't make it as an M around that people want to handle.
(21:22) Jeremy Au:
Who wants to do the hard work? I want all the milk without any of the work.
(21:25) Kheng Lian Ho:
No, no like VC being VC is very hard work as well. I respect, and I do come from that cut from that cloth. So it is very hard work. It's just a different skillset that's necessary to do turnarounds.
(21:38) Jeremy Au:
Yeah. Any tip or advice for people doing turnarounds, either as external party or from an internal perspective? I mean, it is a turnaround situation. What are the skills or attributes or decisions that you're going to make that you would recommend folks to be thinking about?
(21:52) Kheng Lian Ho:
I think one, always focus on fundamentals. Don't be swayed by fad. Don't be swayed, especially by what we call "feature creep", because when you want to do a turnaround, you just have to be very disciplined about it. So truly, truly focus on getting a company to profitability and not overscaling. So what I'm saying is fundamentals and profitability, people need to focus on and be disciplined there.
(22:16) Jeremy Au:
Yeah. And when you think about all of this, could you share about a time that you personally have been brave?
(22:22) Kheng Lian Ho:
This actually ties up very nicely back into my, my career path. So I think when I left law and I wasn't sure what I was going to do next, I stepped into the venture world very bravely, into New York of all places, and then San Francisco, and then LA. And the good thing there is the network that I wanted to open up for myself did materialize. Did I know that was what I was doing at that time? No. Did I know also that I would end up on a boat with 3,000 people that included Kendrick Lamar, Eric Schmidt, Quentin Tarantino, Erin Brockovich? No, but that was actually how Open Circles was also formed. So, it's called Summit Series, Summit at Sea. This is 2016. I was in this discovery phase, and when I went, I was like, whoa, we need this in Asia. We don't have this in Asia, this type of community where people come together with no agenda, to learn and collaborate. And that's why Open Circles was formed, because I'm trying to open your circles of friendship and open your circles of knowledge.
So I think what I'm saying here in terms of being brave was really always taking that opportunity that came and making something out of it, whether it was going to New York and discovering venture, I did three months in South America once I traveled through Peru, Bolivia, Chile, Argentina, Uruguay, and Brazil. And then I ended up in Miami for Summit at Sea, which then created Open Circles. So this entire experience was my very brave episode that culminated into where I am. It was tough. It was rough. It was a very dark alley, not knowing where I was going and not knowing what direction. One big thing that I care about a lot now is being able to empower the next generation. Because when I left law, and this was 11 years ago, I didn't have a mentor. I didn't have people that I could approach or talk to, also because there are very few lawyers that transition into. Anything outside of either a general counsel a restaurant or ice cream shop owner. My ex boss used to joke that when he first met me, I bet you're going to go set up an ice cream shop. So this is my ice cream shop. Every day is my ice cream shop, and every day is a brave step towards continuing to be building this ice cream shop.
(24:40) Jeremy Au:
Well, I don't know if it's an ice cream shop. Maybe you'll acquire one, I guess. I think what's interesting is that you went through this kind of dark period and this dark period you went through was a tough time. What parts made it dark? Was it identity change? Was it a job change? Was it a profession change? What was the aspects that made it difficult?
(24:57) Kheng Lian Ho:
I think identity and financial. Remember, I had a path paved in gold. Just stick my head down, work very hard, make partner, X amount of money will come in. I chose a path and I blew that out of the water. I didn't know where my next paycheck was going to come from. And I will share with you, for 10 years, didn't have a monthly paycheck. That is not regular. That is, very, if I didn't manage it well, can drive a lot of anxiety and a lot of stress. So that part, to be very honest, was not easy. And then secondly, and I love how you brought up identity, and this is something that I've recently been saying.
So when I first left law, surely there was, Ooh, who am I now? And I told myself not to let that bother me. In the 10 years when I was building my advisory and also building myself and when people are not able to pigeonhole you into exactly what you were doing, because I was fundraising for different companies, I was putting different SPVs ,together was running retreat conference and community. So it's like, huh, who are you? Where are you? Credible? And then a year ago when we institutionalized and formalized Turn Capital and we have raised close to $20 million so far, people now are able to identify and go, Oh, she's a general partner at Turn Capital. And then, so it's not so much about my identity for myself. I know who I am, but it's more about the world identifying and then going, Oh, now we know how to bring her to the table. I'm not saying people did not bring me to the table before, but now it's easier for people to identify and know which table to bring me to, how to engage me onto the tables such as this podcast, for example. So I'm just saying that, when you're also able to formulate, first be very strong about knowing who you are. I always knew who I am. And then knowing the identity you're building in the world so that other people can also relate to your identity to collaborate with you better.
(26:47) Jeremy Au:
Does it feel better now that you're a GP of Turn Capital? Is this the right identity? Or do you feel like you need to break out of it eventually? Like, because it's still that vibrant spirit, with Open Circles and building and curating experiences.
(27:00) Kheng Lian Ho:
No, I love being a general partner at Turn Capital because, on a day to day basis, my life is so varied. Sure, to be honest, it got a little bit dry when I was running all the fundraising. So between the three of us, roles are pretty well split up. Like, I do all the restructuring, the legal, your fund formation, the investor relations, the fundraising, but we all source for deals. We all decide together and we all do the business development part together. So yes, I was getting a little bit tired from the fundraising part, but then when we're sourcing for new deals now, because we have money to deploy, it was so interesting. Last week I was having calls with orthodontists and dentists trying to understand the dental space for that company that we were working on.
Secondly, now I'm working on business development for Flash Coffee in Thailand. Next week we're flying in, we're going to be doing taste testing for new products that we want to produce. So it's vibrant. It's exciting. My days are different. And I continue to be able to do my community building alongside being a GP. I am very excited to actually share with you that on Monday, I was able to bring together a fireside chat of Nico Rosberg, the Formula One champion, 2016 Formula One champion, who has his own VC fund now called Rosberg Ventures, is a fund of funds, as well as Keisuke Honda, your David Beckham of Japan, very well renowned soccer player who also has his own VC fund.
So I knew the two of them from the venture space. I was like, Hey, wouldn't it be such a great idea if I could bring both of them together and moderate a fireside chat with them? And we are doing that at Founders Forum on Monday, and the title of the panel will be Fostering the Next Generation of Champions. So the role that I have now allows me to do all of this and it's true joy, like it's a joy and a privilege. I'm so happy.
(28:53) Jeremy Au:
Fantastic. I think what's interesting as you kind of like share about this is that, you've also been building like a new fund. Is it scary to build a new fund, obviously, because previously you were advising and fundraising, and then now it's your name, it's your face on the deck, how's that like?
(29:07) Kheng Lian Ho:
Oh, absolutely. I saw the difference as in the past when I was fundraising for other people, the no's are to them, right? Now it's a actual no to me, but then that's where I had to learn. Hey, it's really not a no to me. It is about the product and whether it fits person's mandate. So emotionally, I'm again, not attached to the results after all this time, but that there are challenges of being a first time fund manager, and there's a lot of stress and emotional management for myself. So this is just a very personal thing where, hey, I have a target. I'm not at target yet. And of course I want to get the target faster but I'm not there.
So fundraising is not difficult. Fundraising is just coming up with a deck and getting people to talk to. What's difficult about fundraising is managing your own stress and emotions. So I think that's one of the biggest parts about being a first time fund manager, but just really understanding product and my market. I'm very glad that we are so differentiated. So I'm not out there looking left, looking right. I'm really running in my own lane and I'm so focused on my own lane.
(30:11) Jeremy Au:
Yeah, that's fantastic. Is there any advice for people who are building out their own funds for the first time?
(30:15) Kheng Lian Ho:
Yes. First, honestly, come up with a very distinct strategy because every investor that has the ability to invest into a fund is being inundated with opportunities. So how are you actually standing out from the crowd? So your either strategy or your team has to be very unique. Two, when you're doing the fundraising, first and foremost, truly, truly go to your friends and family and the warm circles and the people that you have built up over the years. So I always tell people, it's the people that you've made money for who are going to come in into your first fund. So I think we've been very blessed to have the, the LPs that we have such as Kee-Lock, he's a personal investor. Peng Ong from Monk's Hill is a personal investor and a mentor of mine. I've worked with them on their funds before. Kevin Lin, the co founder of Twitch. Keisuke Honda, he's also an LP. And then a number of family offices that we've all worked with, that we have helped them benefit financially. So, that second piece of advice really is know who you are knocking on doors with. I would say sometimes that third party intro is not where you should be focusing your time on.
(31:19) Jeremy Au:
And how do you go about managing your own psychology that you mentioned is so key for part of the fundraising process?
(31:24) Kheng Lian Ho:
I meditate. I pray. Keep myself fit. I do hot yoga every morning, 8am. And I think the most important thing for me is having that support network, that if anything goes wrong, I know who I can call. If I fall left, I fall right, I will always have people that will be propping me up straight. But these are also the people who will celebrate my smallest wins with a glass of champagne. And these are really the most important things.
(31:53) Jeremy Au:
On that note, thank you so much for sharing about your personal journey. I'd like to summarize the three big takeaways I got from this conversation. first of all, thanks so much for sharing about your early experience, about growing up and playing a lot of badminton and crushing it as an athlete, all the way to obviously your time as a lawyer and saying that lawyer lifestyle, the bureaucracy of that is not for you and using that time to transition into technology, as a career.
Secondly, thanks so much for sharing about your own experience handling and building our distinctive strategy at TurnCapital. So focusing on really acquiring undervalued consumer brands, and turning them back towards growth and profitability within five years. So it's interesting to hear about your fund return target, which allows you to be more considered, but much more realistic about what the growth levels are, but also the cost levels are. So it's fantastic to hear about how that distinctive strategy has turned out, for your first deal, which is the kind of the acquisition of the Thailand arm of the Flash Coffee business.
And lastly, thanks so much for sharing about your own experiences and advice to other emerging fund managers about what's it like to set up a fund and advice that you think about how people should be thinking about their fundraise, but also how people should be managing their own psychology, and thinking.
On that note, thank you so much for sharing.
(33:03) Kheng Lian Ho:
Thank you, Jeremy. I hope to be sharing that glass of champagne with you soon. Good luck on your journey as well. If anything, we can help and collaborate on. Always reach out, please.
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