Elena Chow: Southeast Asia Talent Reset, Malaysia’s Rise & How AI Is Reshaping Hiring – E580
"10 years ago, it’s ‘better be digital.’ What does digital mean? Maybe you have some apps on your phone, you're using some software beyond Microsoft Word to help you with your—you're using Google, maybe—and things like that 10 years ago. And now it’s like it’s embedded. We need to be on top of AI. Think about it as your little competitor. If you're on top of it and you know what your competitor is doing, then you'll always be one step ahead of your competitor, right? Yeah. So you think of AI—if you think of AI replacing your jobs, then AI is my competitor. Then I better be one mile in front of my competitor. Start now. I can't predict exactly what jobs will be replaced or at what rate, you know? Mm-hmm. Right now, we can only guess on some ends. But the safest net for anyone in the job market right now is to be on top. Yeah. Which means to use AI, join communities, learn together—whatever you wanna do." - Elena Chow, Founder of ConnectOne
"So when I preached the borrow to people around me—whether they are startup founders or VCs—buy is very simple: you hire your full-time employees. Build means hiring fresh grads or inexperienced talent and developing them. Borrow is the fractional piece, where you bring in expertise on demand for a specific outcome, but they aren’t part of your full-time bench. People used to be skeptical, asking, 'Why would I bring in someone like that?' and questioning the commitment. But over the last two years, cost pressures and the need for flexibility have made this model more accepted. You now see the word 'fractional' used a lot more—there was a LinkedIn or Harvard Business Review report that said LinkedIn used to have 2,000 profiles with the word 'fractional.' Guess what the number is now? 120,000. That’s the level of change in just two years." - Elena Chow, Founder of ConnectOne
"We know that AI started with language—the power of language. A year ago, we all said they're not analytically great, the scripts are wrong, the numbers they spit out are inaccurate. So we said, 'Okay, it's strong on the language front,' and that mostly affected content marketers—people who write and produce all forms of content. But now, just a year later, AI is super powerful analytically—it can write scripts for you, its databases are accurate, and that shift is dramatic. We're now going, 'Oh my gosh, analytic skills are going to go.' And alongside that, coding is also becoming more accurate. So I think, as a fresh grad, we just have to be on top—first, of what kind of skill AI will possess, and then, how that skill will either replace or reduce the need for a human to have it. That’s the way I look at it." - Elena Chow, Founder of ConnectOne
Elena Chow, Founder of ConnectOne and Jeremy Au reconnect after three years to examine how Southeast Asia’s hiring landscape evolved from rapid expansion to cautious, AI-aware decision-making. They explore how employer expectations have become more structured, why talent strategies now vary across the region, and what individuals must do to stay employable in the decade ahead. Their discussion covers the rise of Malaysia as a hiring hub, Vietnam’s growing edge despite language challenges, and how automation is reshaping job functions. Elena also shares her “skills, markets, and industries of the future” framework, helping professionals make better career moves through strategic alignment.
02:00 Hiring shifted from urgency to intentionality: Employers now plan roles more carefully, focusing on outcomes and cost rather than headcount.
04:30 Fractional and contract talent went mainstream: On-demand expertise has become more accepted as startups look to stay lean and agile.
06:43 Malaysia emerged as a sweet spot for tech hiring: Its talent pool is multilingual, well-educated, and more cost-effective than Singapore’s.
08:54 Indonesia's talent bubble burst post-unicorn boom: Average workers were overpaid during the boom and are now facing tough salary corrections.
22:02 AI adoption is redefining job replacement logic: Firms are evaluating AI tools before rehiring, making automation the first line of action.
12:00 Vietnam’s talent quality rises despite English gap: With strong work ethic and improving tools, Vietnam’s engineers are becoming regionally competitive.
29:34 Future-proof careers need 3-point alignment: Elena urges jobseekers to evaluate roles through the lens of future-ready skills, growth markets, and promising industries.
(01:02) Jeremy Au: Good to see you!
(01:03) Elena Chow: Hey, Jeremy! Thanks for inviting me back again. It's good to be back after three years. I was just looking at the
(01:09) history and I was your 176 episodes
(01:13) Jeremy Au: That's right.
(01:13) Elena Chow: You've come a long way.
(01:15) Jeremy Au: 400 episodes. Hopefully I'm a better interviewer to Samran. Then you're like, after this interview you're like, oh, jeremy has regressed. He's gotten worse as an interviewer.
(01:23) Elena Chow: No, that one clear difference. It was all on Zoom the last time, because we were all stuck at home. But I'm glad to be here with you. I think it makes for much better conversation.
(01:32) Jeremy Au: Definitely.
(01:32) Elena Chow: Looking Forward.
(01:33) Jeremy Au: Yeah. So, I think what's happened since the past three years at a time, was the tech talent wars.
(01:38) And now, here's like the tech talent, winter plus concerns of the AI apocalypse on talent. Which is a big difference over those three years, right? 'Cause 2022, everybody felt like there's so much competition
(01:50) for jobs and for talent.
(01:52) Elena Chow: I call it hiring at that time.
(01:54) Jeremy Au: What was it like?
(01:54) Elena Chow: Yeah. If you're missing out hiring, we've gotta act fast.
(01:57) If there is a good talent, let's just bring it (02:00) on. It doesn't matter if there is a job or not, we'll create a job. We have the funding anyway. And the talents have multiple options, right?
(02:07) Then, as I say this, it seems so far away those times although it's been just two and a half years. It seems very far away because things turned right even a few months after we spoke. Things went completely about turn when Gojek, Facebook, made their first layoffs and it started a whole spiral downwards.
(02:26) Yeah, but I don't think we're here to talk too much about that.
(02:29) Jeremy Au: I think we should talk about it because it's like a before and after. We'll talk about the future and what we think are the jobs of 2035, right? But I think, what were the learnings between 2022?
(02:38) Where interest rates were low, there's a lot of funding, people are hiring super aggressively versus today which feels like, you know, people are very scared for the jobs, where the AI replace them. The companies are laying off because they're just digitizing and becoming more productive.
(02:51) And of course, obviously, Asia and macro tech environment is winter right now. So, I'm just kind of curious, maybe you reflect on these two years.
(02:57) Elena Chow: Yeah.
(02:57) Jeremy Au: Any lessons or insights you got, anything you change (03:00) your mind on.
(03:00) Elena Chow: Yeah. So, Let's start from the employer side,
(03:02) then we'll talk about the talent side. On the employer side, I think one thing that has changed is become intentional back in mid 2022 and between 2021 to middle of 2022, there wasn't much thought that went into hiring.
(03:17) Jeremy Au: Mm-hmm.
(03:18) Elena Chow: The question is, I just need to hire 20 people in this team and there wasn't much analysis about what exactly is the scope of this person. What exactly will this person deliver for me? What will the compensation? How does it hit my bottom line?
(03:33) What we call in, I guess corporate HR speak will be manpower planning, strategic talent planning. But I think now, people have gotten a lot more intentional when you are resource strapped, you become more intentional, you start looking at JDs properly.
(03:47) You start looking at, okay, what would the job scope be? You start looking indexing against outcomes, like what will this person deliver? What difference will this person make to my company or to the results I'm hoping to? So, it's more (04:00) intentional.
(04:00) Of course, the negative way of putting it is that it's a bit more cautious. But it should be that way. So, I think that's one thing I noticed on the employer side.
(04:10) the employee side, it is kind of like one learning.
(04:14) We will get talent who ghost us. They don't reply. You set up an interview and they don't turn up because there are many options, right?
(04:22) Elena Chow: So, now I think one flip is that they will engage with you
(04:26) Elena Chow: even if they have to say no, they will at least politely decline.
(04:31) Or they would say, I'm not looking out, but let's have a chat. Because they wanna build a relationship with you. They know that you're gonna help them in the future. So, I think that's, if you ask me to sum it up, that's the difference I see between the employer. And employee in terms of what has happened in the last.
(04:48) Jeremy Au: Mm-hmm. And you know, I wanna ask, it's a bit of a mix of professional and personal, but how have you personally changed as somebody who is in a talent space? Over the past three years, what have you had to adjust or change your mind (05:00) on, or acknowledged that you are wrong or had to update your internal OS?
(05:04) Elena Chow: I've always been a very open person.
(05:07) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(05:07) Elena Chow: I get very excited about new stuff.
(05:10) Elena Chow: The change for me wasn't like, oh, I used to be a skeptic and now I'm a believer. The change for me is like, oh wow, something that I thought was real.
(05:20) Which wasn't believed by people. Then it's now becoming well, I would say it hasn't reached mainstream yet, but it's become accepted.
(05:27) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(05:27) Elena Chow: Right. I'll give you an example. Fractional and contract talent of freelance talent. I used to call it the "buy, build, borrow" model, taught to me by one of my consultants who's a HR expert for many years.
(05:39) So, when I preached the borrow to people around me, whether they're startup founders or VCs, buy is very simple. It's like you hire your full-time employees, build meaning that you hire, fresh grads or inexperienced talent and build them up and borrow.
(05:53) It's a fractional piece, right? Where you bring in expertise on demand for a specific outcome, but (06:00) they may not be part of your full-time bench.
(06:02) Jeremy Au: Right.
(06:02) Elena Chow: People will be skeptical about it. Like, why would I bring in someone like that? They'll question their commitment.
(06:07) But I think what has changed in the last two years is because of cost pressures, and the need to be flexible due to changes. This has become more accepted. So, you will see that the word fractional is being used a lot more now. In fact, there was a LinkedIn report or it was Harvard Business
(06:23) review which said that LinkedIn used to have 2000 profiles with the word fractional.
(06:29) Jeremy Au: Mm-hmm.
(06:29) Elena Chow: Guess that number.
(06:30) Jeremy Au: No idea.
(06:31) Elena Chow: 120,000.
(06:32) Jeremy Au: Wow!
(06:32) Elena Chow: Yeah. I'll need to get that exact number. But it's that level of multiplier in two years,
(06:38) right? So, I think that's one thing that I think if I reflect back would've been one of the bigger changes. I had interest in that and a belief in that, and now I'm very happy that it's become more mainstream. So, that answers your question.
(06:51) Jeremy Au: Gotcha.
(06:52) Elena Chow: I don't wanna sound like I'm some like Yoda. I guess it's something that I always believed in which was the right model especially for growing startups.
(06:59) Jeremy Au: (07:00) Right.
(07:00) Elena Chow: Yeah,
(07:00) I think that's one. But there are a few other things I realize as well.
(07:03) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(07:04) Elena Chow: Cross border hiring and
(07:05) Jeremy Au: Right.
(07:05) Elena Chow: COVID accelerated it
(07:06) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(07:07) Elena Chow: Yeah. It's about cost and flexibility.
(07:09) Jeremy Au: Right.
(07:09) Elena Chow: Recently, I accepted a new project.
(07:11) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(07:12) Elena Chow: I was very surprised. A US SaaS company,
(07:15) Jeremy Au: mm-hmm.
(07:16) Elena Chow: they built their sales and custom success team in Malaysia. A big team.
(07:19) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(07:20) Elena Chow: They came to us to help us look for someone to shepherd this team of 30 to 40 individuals. When I spoke to candidates, the first thing they said, 'oh, this is really smart.'
(07:29) Jeremy Au: Mm-hmm.
(07:29) Elena Chow: Because they're doing very well.
(07:31) Jeremy Au: Right.
(07:31) Elena Chow: There is no need to spend on
(07:34) Jeremy Au: Right.
(07:34) Elena Chow: If I can find an equal
(07:36) level and quality of cost in another country.
(07:38) Jeremy Au: Right.
(07:39) Elena Chow: And in this case they chose Malaysia.
(07:41) Jeremy Au: Right. Let's talk about that. The geographic mix has changed quite a lot over the past three years. People were very focused, for example, on Indonesia for hiring. 'Cause I think, Indonesia is 200 million people. It was a big growth story. And now, I think it went winter under the Indonesia funding landscape. So, Hiring is very flat. I would say that Malaysia has gone up over the past two years
(07:59) (08:00) in terms of technology hiring.
(08:01) Elena Chow: Yeah.
(08:02) Jeremy Au: Singapore is neutral.
(08:03) Elena Chow: I think among all the Southeast Asian countries, it's a known fact.
(08:06) You know,
(08:07) that Singapore has the best
(08:08) talent,
(08:09) highest quality talent, global mindset, good education,
(08:14) attitude towards work, and everything else. Singapore, I think we all know it, is the cost.
(08:18) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(08:18) Elena Chow: Right. It's the cost.
(08:20) Jeremy Au: Mm-hmm.
(08:20) Elena Chow: Junior talent.
(08:21) Jeremy Au: Mm.
(08:22) Elena Chow: Because our junior talent costs the same as a mid-level or senior talent in our neighboring countries, right?
(08:28) Jeremy Au: Mm.
(08:28) Elena Chow: But I think now, Singapore has that advantage because we may not necessarily need so many of those junior talent anymore with automation.
(08:36) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(08:37) Elena Chow: I'm a bit more optimistic about Singapore
(08:39) in
(08:39) that sense.
(08:40) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(08:40) Elena Chow: To Indonesia, Indonesia is very tough because the unicorns had overpaid.
(08:46) Jeremy Au: Mm-hmm.
(08:46) Elena Chow: I think we know it.
(08:47) Jeremy Au: Mm-hmm.
(08:47) Elena Chow: So, if you talk to people like two years ago, why do you wanna join startup?
(08:51)
(08:51) Elena Chow: It's
(08:51) because their pay could be triple
(08:53) Jeremy Au: yep.
(08:53) Elena Chow: compared to, say other countries particularly Singapore, like if you join startup, the immediate perception is (09:00) that I'll get a pay cut in exchange for equity. But Indonesia was the other way. The unicorns particularly flush with funding overpaid.
(09:07) Now, they are the first to lay off and these people are caught in a difficult predicament because they have already achieved a certain salary scale. And it is just unusual and abnormal to say, 'okay, I'll go back down to half.'
(09:20) Jeremy Au: It's difficult.
(09:20) Elena Chow: It's difficult. We know that's the situation.
(09:23) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(09:23) Elena Chow: Yeah. Indonesia has many different challenges when it comes to talent.
(09:27) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(09:28) Elena Chow: I would say that the other thing is because talent is scar in Indonesia. So, even your average talent got paid above average salaries.
(09:37) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(09:37) Elena Chow: And now when things are equated, where do these average talent go?
(09:41) Because they may not deserve that above average or top premium salary.
(09:46) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(09:46) Elena Chow: Yeah. I'm hoping to be as neutral as possible and real as possible. But this is what we're seeing on the ground.
(09:52) Jeremy Au: Yeah, I totally understand. I remember that during the pandemic time period, 2020 to 2022, for me, when I was looking at the Harvard (10:00) alumni, a lot of Southeast Asians coming back to Southeast Asia, right? Yeah. And so, we saw that a lot of the Indonesian folks during that time were all going back to Indonesia to build businesses 'cause they excited the startups. I can tell you right now that, you know, 2024, 2025, totally different.
(10:13) Like most of them are saying, okay, I wanna stay in the US for longer. Or if I want to be an employee in Singapore, cut out opportunities in Indonesia over time, get see my parents. Or if they go back to Indonesia, it'll be because they have a family business.
(10:26) They're expected to take over because these are tough times. They need to start taking over and ramping it up. But there isn't that piece where they were going to go straight into Indonesia tech sector for example.
(10:35) Elena Chow: Go back to traditional SME businesses.
(10:37) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(10:38) Elena Chow: Right? Profitable from the word go, whatever business it is. Because Indonesia is still, there's still a lot of opportunities in traditional industries. Not the sexiest of industries, but fundamentally sound,
(10:48) right?
(10:48) There's no issue.
(10:49) There's no need to chase PMF. It's growth from the word "go" because you know, you have PMF.
(10:54) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(10:54) Elena Chow: Yeah.
(10:55) Jeremy Au: Makes sense.
(10:55) Elena Chow: It may not be a hundred x.
(10:57) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(10:57) Elena Chow: It may not be a billion dollar (11:00) business, but it makes for more than enough to make you in the top 10% of income bracket.
(11:05) Jeremy Au: Yeah. And of course the problem is that, everybody's setting up F&B now because there's a lot of VCs and private equity.
(11:11) Elena Chow: Going into the,
(11:12) Jeremy Au: into F&B because they can't put the money into startup.
(11:14) So, now they're putting the money into F&B and the middle class, affordable, premium, like very goods. So like, you know,
(11:21) Elena Chow: In Indonesia.
(11:22) Jeremy Au: Exactly. Like, Jun Kai. Chicken fried and prawn paste.
(11:25) Elena Chow: What's that?
(11:25) Jeremy Au: No, that's also like halal beef rice bowl because Yoshinoya Is Japanese but also doesn't have the local flavor.
(11:31) Elena Chow: Fundamentally,
(11:32) it can be tech enabled. It can be automated.
(11:34) Jeremy Au: I think a lot of Indonesia talents focusing on now is like, what's that middle class? Like you said, tech business. Of course, the tricky part is do you have enough capital to set up from scratch? And because the VCs have kind of frozen, Indonesia, obviously they're still deploying for those who are doing it. They're still building the other group are those who are second generation, third generation from the SMEs, they are going back to tech because they're getting competed by these groups. Let's put Indonesia to one side.
(11:57) Yeah. And obviously, I think the other three markets is kind of like (12:00) Malaysia, Vietnam, and Philippines. What do you think about these markets?
(12:02) Elena Chow: Malaysia has a lot of potential.
(12:04) Jeremy Au: Mm-hmm.
(12:04) Elena Chow: Because talent wise, most of them speak three languages.
(12:08) Right.
(12:08) English and Chinese.
(12:10) Jeremy Au: Mm.
(12:10) Elena Chow: So, that's one strength
(12:12) Jeremy Au: Mm.
(12:12) Elena Chow: that they have. I think the quality education,
(12:17) Jeremy Au: Mm.
(12:17) Elena Chow: quality of talent, a lot of them get sent overseas as well. Local education is pretty good,
(12:22) both private and public. I think Malaysia has a lot of potential because of that. Cost of talent is still reasonable.
(12:29) Jeremy Au: Mm-hmm.
(12:29) Elena Chow: Of course, it's not comparable to say Indonesia, Philippines, or Vietnam yet, but if you look at the balance of quality
(12:37) Jeremy Au: yeah.
(12:38) Elena Chow: Malaysia is in a pretty good spot.
(12:39) Jeremy Au: I think it's a sweet spot for sure. they have good infrastructure in terms of internet, it doesn't go down like the Philippines.
(12:44) Elena Chow: Yeah.
(12:44) Jeremy Au: And then, I think obviously, they speak English.
(12:46) Elena Chow: The three languages. So, I have got American saaS companies building teams there.
(12:51) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(12:51) Elena Chow: We've got Chinese companies.
(12:53) Jeremy Au: That as well.
(12:53) Elena Chow: I've got Chinese companies telling me I'm building my team in Malaysia.
(12:57) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(12:57) Elena Chow: The only reason, language.
(12:59) Jeremy Au: Right.
(12:59) Elena Chow: The (13:00) bridge between internal language is very important. Not externally, internally, culture in sync. So language. And then of course English being the international language all around, right?
(13:12) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(13:12) Elena Chow: Yeah. That's why I think Malaysia has a pretty sweet spot.
(13:15)
(13:15) Jeremy Au: Makes a lot of sense, yeah. You know, that's a fair point as well because I think a lot of people in Singapore have lost their ability to speak Mandarin, fluently.
(13:21) Elena Chow: I'm born Malaysian, so, I have a slight bias towards Malaysia but I grew up most of my years in Singapore. Singapore gave me a scholarship and I've been here for decades, right? So, I think that's my assessment on Malaysia, if you ask me. On the under countries, just my point of view, I may not have the deepest, understanding, Vietnam in terms of talent, probably stands out because
(13:45) they have really good attitude.
(13:46) Jeremy Au: Right.
(13:47) Elena Chow: They're hungry.
(13:47) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(13:48) Elena Chow: They work hard. They're smart. Perhaps, if the level of English can match up, that could be the priority.
(13:54) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(13:54) Elena Chow: They would be a force to be reckoned.
(13:56) Jeremy Au: I agree.
(13:56) Elena Chow: To be reckoned with.
(13:57) Jeremy Au: A hundred percent agree.
(13:58) I think Vietnam, the biggest (14:00) handicap is English.
(14:01) Elena Chow: VCs, PEs are going into Vietnam in education.
(14:04) Jeremy Au: Right.
(14:05) Elena Chow: I don't have data, but that's obviously a huge growth sector for many investors.
(14:10) That motivation and availability of English lesson or whatever is, that's going to be the bridge.
(14:16) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(14:17) Elena Chow: Because firstly, you're motivated. And secondly, if it's available and if it's English, then it's probably easily bridged with language tools,
(14:25) online, particularly AI language tools. It's so many options right now. I think that would be something that could be bridgeable in five years.
(14:31) Jeremy Au: Yeah. I would say the Vietnamese is benefiting a lot from the China plus one. A lot of the Chinese companies are moving to Vietnam because they feel quite comfortable, nearby, at least on the e-commerce.
(14:42) Elena Chow: Of course, there were other considerations through international trade
(14:45) Jeremy Au: It's not controversial to say that.
(14:47) Elena Chow: Came in and said, if you remember a week ago, we said, Hey Jeremy, we should talk about tariffs and talent, but every preparation that I made to do with tariff and talent had just kind of like, you've just put it on a pause because things are so uncertain right now.
(14:59) (15:00) Right.
(15:00) Jeremy Au: I'm uncertain, but I think the direction of change is clear. I don't know how to drive from here to Bangkok, but the direction is roughly there.
(15:06)
(15:06) Jeremy Au: I think US doesn't likethe trading relationship with China, it's asymmetrical. Yeah. And so, it's gonna erect trade barriers. There's gonna be taxes or tariffs on Chinese goods moving to America, right? Yeah. That incentivize the Chinese companies. Yeah.
(15:19) To move to Vietnam or Cambodia, or Laos. Basically, they're becoming like every other multinational corporation. Right. Yeah. You know, like Americans were the first become multinational corporations. Yeah. The Koreans became multinational corporations.
(15:33) Yeah. The Japanese also became multinational corporations after the Plaza Accord. Yeah. And they had a trade dispute of America. So, all these Chinese companies are becoming, you know, learning how to have multiple offices.
(15:44) Elena Chow: Yeah. I think if you ask me the last two years,
(15:46) one of the biggest change for me is the contact, I mean the requests from Chinese companies requesting for our help.
(15:55) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(15:55) Elena Chow: To find international talent based in Singapore, Malaysia, different parts of Southeast (16:00) Asia.
(16:00) Jeremy Au: I think that's the biggest difference, because if you ask me before 2021, I'll say 2000 to 2020, the 20 year period, I think, by then, this upswing in China was very strong. So, the point of view was like, okay, if you wanna work for a Chinese company,
(16:14) go to China. It's money to be made. Tech boom. Yeah. And then set up, you know, if you're sea turtle, go back to China. But it was never this idea of, okay, I'll work for a Chinese company in Singapore, Korea, or Vietnam. It's like, why do that when you can be in JI or Hong Kong?
(16:28) Elena Chow: Because it was much more domestic. The domestic market was huge enough.
(16:32) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(16:32) Elena Chow: But China had some
(16:33) challenges
(16:33) in recent years.
(16:34) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(16:35) Elena Chow: And so, they've become more international.
(16:37) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(16:37) Elena Chow: And because of that, they have to set up companies outside of China and then hire outside of China as well.
(16:44) Jeremy Au: Exactly.
(16:44) Elena Chow: And Singapore has an advantage because of language.
(16:46) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(16:47) Elena Chow: No matter how bad your Chinese is, you can still pick it up because you have the fundamentals.
(16:51) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(16:52) Elena Chow: Right.
(16:52) Jeremy Au: I have been improving, 'cause I've been coaching my 4-year-old and 2-year-old girls to be bilingual. I'm learning with them.
(16:57) Elena Chow: My Chinese is now 10 times better.
(16:59) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(16:59) Elena Chow: (17:00) Because having to talk to, yeah.
(17:01) Jeremy Au: And then I think the last country in this list is probably, Philippines.
(17:05) Elena Chow: Philippines used to be the hub for business
(17:10) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(17:10) Elena Chow: outsourcing, right? Correct. Customers, service teams, backend,
(17:14) Jeremy Au: right.
(17:14) Elena Chow: it's going to be, because of their proficiency in English.
(17:17) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(17:17) Elena Chow: My only fear is automation I
(17:20) refer to AI? As the driver of automation. So, I think my only fear would be automation.
(17:25) Jeremy Au: I think so too. The crux of it is, do you have the other skills beyond English? And at that time it was very much like, okay, you have English, you have an SOP, therefore get outsourced.
(17:33) This customer service call to you. People are building this 1000 center, Call center. So, you use this. And now you have AI, and it's getting really good speaking English, they sound less robotic
(17:43) Elena Chow: 'cause of machine
(17:44) Jeremy Au: Because of machine learning. So, if you want personal. Right. And the order of magnitude differences this nine day between, you know, three years ago today. Yes. And so, it just keeps improving. So, I think the issue is, you know, the underinvestment from my perspective
(17:57) Into like, you know, maybe call it science or (18:00) math, education. When I've beenevaluating talent for example, I've been seeing Vietnamese engineers are very, very good. Yeah. They're using AI to improve their English. Yes.
(18:07) Versus a Filipino person who's good at English but can't do the work deeply. Suddenly, it's no longer Filipino versus Vietnamese talent.
(18:14) Elena Chow: it's systems thinking actually. So, that systems thinking need to be in place, right? And if you don't have that systems thinking, then you can't optimize on the automations tools that are available right now.
(18:26) I think that's my biggest fear. It's not gonna go away immediately.
(18:30) Jeremy Au: Right.
(18:30) Elena Chow: I think, AI has made tremendous progress in that aspect, it's just going to get even better. The scale is exponential.
(18:37) Jeremy Au: I agree.
(18:38) Elena Chow: The improvement. So, I think that's gonna be my biggest fear.
(18:41) I mean, of course, there's still that top percentage of leadership talent, senior talent that's going to be needed. But if you talk about broad base,
(18:50) Jeremy Au: right
(18:50) Elena Chow: that's where my understanding is.
(18:52) Jeremy Au: Right.
(18:52) Elena Chow: Yeah.
(18:53) Jeremy Au: And you know, I think this is a shared good timing because now, we have this landscape of it.
(18:58) I guess one more (19:00) question I have more specifically before we turn to kind of AI and Jobs of Future is, what do you think about this Jo Hall Singapore special economic zone? Are you optimistic about it? Are you bearish about it? Because I'm hearing like some mixed views about this. So, I'm just kind of curious.
(19:14) What do you think about that?
(19:15) Elena Chow: Honestly, I don't have much of an opinion about it now. In my day-to-day conversations, I don't hear the people I talk to really thinking that it's gonna be a big advantage for me. I guess the only thing is that maybe, availability of talent or less barriers to talent, particularly in the traditional sectors where you need soft service talent or blue collared workers, so to speak
(19:37) Singapore does not have enough of, and have been hiring people from Malaysia and there has been barriers to the movement, so maybe that barrier would be removed. It's already something that's happening.
(19:48) Jeremy Au: Right.
(19:49) Elena Chow: Right. So maybe just some removal of barrier,
(19:51)
(19:51) Jeremy Au: yeah
(19:52) Elena Chow: in a way it's just removing those barriers. It will benefit and I think it's on top of what the Parliament has been talking about in terms of (20:00) removing barriers
(20:00) Jeremy Au: Right.
(20:00) Elena Chow: ocean and Cambodian talent.
(20:02) Jeremy Au: Right.
(20:02) Elena Chow: I think it's more a combination rather than a standalone.
(20:06) Jeremy Au: I think a special economic zone in Jo Hall, obviously.
(20:09) It's a codification, obviously, we know that Malaysians and Singapore was one country under the British and then also together. So, I don't think people are very different in terms of that. But I think there is like I said, cost of living. Big difference.
(20:20) Elena Chow: Yeah.
(20:21) Jeremy Au: Labor, upper charge of wage Is much higher than the actual competency difference, if any. So, I think the special economic zone is an interesting piece I've been to the network school by Balaji to see that really aggressively pushing and saying like, Hey, this is a great place for us to access Singapore nearby. They live with low cost of living.
(20:39) Elena Chow: Yeah.
(20:40) Right,
(20:40) right.
(20:40) I think
(20:40) the other thing that I see would be Singaporeans or people residing in Singapore moving there.
(20:45)
(20:45) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(20:46) Elena Chow: Yeah. There are already people moving to Jo Hall as their base but operating businesses across the world, including Singapore. So, maybe it might just make those decisions easier.
(20:57) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(20:57) Elena Chow: Because there's less barriers. I (21:00) think the effects are not yet obvious.
(21:02) Jeremy Au: Yeah, I think we'll see it. Singapore's building the MRT, the train between Singapore and Jo Hall. I was talking to some retailers and they're pretty worried about it. From your perspective, Singapore is like, Hey, on Saturday, I have some friends who already do this.
(21:13) They drive to Asia, buy all the groceries in Jo Hall and then drive back. So, the users just make it, you know, open to everybody who doesn't drive. I think it's interesting.
(21:21) Elena Chow: I would see that although it hasn't really come out as a big pain point for our retailers. I mean, they're still growing and things like that.
(21:28) Jeremy Au: The chain hasn't been built yet. I think people are already saying that when it happens,
(21:31) yeah, I think they expect serious behavior. We'll see when it happens.
(21:34) Elena Chow: Controversial.
(21:35) Jeremy Au: Controversial. Do you believe that Singapores would travel across the border on an MRT to buy cheaper groceries? I mean, to me it's like a yes. If you look
(21:44) Europe, It's normal. It happens on the scene.
(21:46) Elena Chow: The Swiss would cross over to Germany in an hour, pick up groceries and come back. So, I think it's just the way it is. And the retailers here will just have to constantly think of innovation, differentiation, improve the experience.
(21:59) Jeremy Au: Fight (22:00) e-commerce and then fight this.
(22:01) Elena Chow: And then you will be targeting sophisticated customers or consumers here.
(22:06) Yeah.
(22:06) The sugar and everything else, like your staples might end up being from Malaysia, right? The supermarkets here will transform into a place of experience. It's gonna be that which is what fair price has been doing.
(22:17) If you walk into a fair price right now, it's a place of experience. It's not just picking up staples.
(22:23) Jeremy Au: I always remember, there was this experience where I had to buy a shoe brush and shoe polish. Yeah. I walked into the supermarket until like, we haven't stocked a shoe brush or shoe polish for five or six years.
(22:33) Obviously, I don't buy a shoe brush that often. But for then, it was just like, please buy it online.
(22:37) Elena Chow: I know.
(22:38) Jeremy Au: I need to brush my shoes.
(22:39) Elena Chow: Now that you talk about it, crossing over to Malaysia to buy something that's cheap, it's just like going to Shopee or Taobao
(22:44) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(22:45) Elena Chow: buying stuffs.
(22:46) Jeremy Au: Yeah,
(22:46) Elena Chow: It bypasses our local retailers. Consumers are happy.
(22:49) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(22:50) Elena Chow: So, if you think about it, it's just opening of the economy, right?
(22:53) Jeremy Au: Yeah,
(22:54) we'll see.
(22:54) Elena Chow: Everyone will have to figure out what their distinct advantage is
(22:57) Jeremy Au: yeah.
(22:58) Elena Chow: the users' needs.
(22:59) Jeremy Au: Speaking about (23:00) advantage, you know, you were mentioning that you think that the jobs of 2035 are gonna be so different from jobs of 2025. And I think, we are already kind of seeing that, right? There are people today whose jobs are getting impacted by AI.
(23:12) If you say, ' oh, my dream was to become a call service center worker or to be a content marketer, writing, copy. Yeah. I think we really see a lot of those jobs kind of like really disappearing already.
(23:24) So, fresh graduates are going through a problem. And I think in Singapore for example, there's already higher than normal amount of people who are unable to get jobs upon graduation. Because I think it just got dislocated, right? Like AI change happened very quickly.
(23:35) They were already on a path to do marketing. And then there's normal marketing job, accountings becoming more efficient and everything. So, as all the companies become more efficient, then there's less entry level jobs for them to enter. So, I think there's really seeing some signs of some distress there.
(23:49) But I'm just kind of curious what your thoughts are.
(23:50) Elena Chow: I think companies, I don't think they have blatantly said that we're not hiring that many because of AI. But I think they're just being cautious. So, (24:00) for example, Shopify's CEO, few days ago said, " If an employee leaves,
(24:07) Jeremy Au: mm-hmm.
(24:07) Elena Chow: there is no mandate to replace an employee unless you showed me that you have explored AI.
(24:12) Jeremy Au: Mm-hmm.
(24:12) Elena Chow: Have you explored AI? Can an AI replace the work that's being done by this employee?
(24:18) I think it's that kind of mindset that's happening already among employees, The actual number of jobs being lost, we don't know. That's just a prediction. I think the prediction is something like 40% by one of the international bodies. So, if you ask me the impact, I would say that as a fresh related to a fresh grad or anyone in a career right now.
(24:40) I think the key thing is to look at what are the skills. And it's hard to predict because AI is moving at such a quick pace, but we sort of roughly know what kind of, ability AI has. How does it impact the skills of the future?
(24:54) Jeremy Au: Hmm.
(24:54) Elena Chow: That will be the first thing I'll look at.
(24:57) Jeremy Au: Right.
(24:57) Elena Chow: Right. We know that AI started with (25:00) language.
(25:00) Jeremy Au: Mm,
(25:01) Elena Chow: The power of language. A year ago, we all said they're not analytically great, scripts are wrong. The things they're spitting out on numbers are wrong.
(25:09) So we said, okay, on the language front end. So, that affected the content marketers, people who write and that offer some content, right? But a year later now, AI is super powerful in terms of their analytical. They can write scripts for you, their databases are., When a year ago it wasn't accurate, now we're going, oh my gosh, analytic skills are going to go.
(25:29) And of course, alongside that, the coding is becoming more accurate. So, I think as a fresh grad, we just have to be on top. Number one of what kind of skill AI would possess. And how that skill will, then you can extrapolate it to replace or reduce the need for human to have that skill.
(25:50) Jeremy Au: Yeah,
(25:51) Elena Chow: Right. It's the way I look at it. To sum it all, you ask my opinion, what skills would the current fresh grads or job seekers, or talent (26:00) need? Soft skills will be less replaceable by AI.
(26:03) Soft skills, meaning communication skills, how you conduct yourself ? How you collaborate with people?
(26:11) Jeremy Au: Right.
(26:11) Elena Chow: Those are soft skills. In the last few years, it's always been brought up as something that one should prioritize more than hard skills. But now, I think even more so.
(26:22) Jeremy Au: But let's take the contrarian view, right?
(26:25) Yeah. Because soft skills, like communicating well, collaborating. Well, AI can be very collaborative, right? Yeah. When I talk to my AI agent, like, what a great idea, Jeremy. Meaning, let's get to it. So, you know, it's always perfectly collaborative with media. Right.
(26:38) Elena Chow: Let's double click on that.
(26:39) You see?
(26:40) So, you see the AI is always optimistic. It's always positive because at one point we were going, oh wow the AI is being a bit too rude
(26:48) and not
(26:48) right. So, then I guess the people behind it structured it to be super encouraging.
(26:53) The AI is not criticizing you whereas I think that's where the human EQ comes in. We need to have constructive feedback, (27:00) constructive criticism, right? And when there's a need to be encouraging, we are encouraging. And I think that's where AI is not sometimes you feel that the guy is over optimistic all the time. Because it can only be programmed to be such, I dunno, maybe one day it will be so intuitive.
(27:17) That it will have that human balance.
(27:19) Jeremy Au: I mean, okay, fine. I'm being you know, criticism with you. But I feel like I'll just go to my agents like, please be less nice, and please be constructive and thoughtful in business English. And then, you can tune your AI one way I'm saying
(27:33) Elena Chow: Yeah, it could. But in general, I think that AI, if you look at the job, soft skills would be important.
(27:39) Jeremy Au: Right.
(27:39) Elena Chow: So, for example, your executive presence. The way you communicate, the way you are able to collaborate with someone,
(27:44) Jeremy Au: I would say in person is a big thing because we are not gonna see in-person robots.
(27:48) Elena Chow: Yeah.
(27:48) Jeremy Au: Correct?
(27:48) Elena Chow: Even then, it will not have the same between me and you, right? If not, why are you inviting me for a in-person interview? Might just do it online, right?
(27:56) Jeremy Au: Maybe it's not me. This is actually the most advanced AI robot who (28:00) copy
(28:00) and paste Jeremy's mannerisms in body language.
(28:02) Elena Chow: I think that's, so soft skills. The other thing is really be on top of AI.
(28:07) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(28:07) Elena Chow: There's no one in this world today that should not say, I have used any form of AI at all.
(28:13) Jeremy Au: Right.
(28:13) Elena Chow: To be on top of AI, to know what's happening, to experiment with it, like we were talking about earlier 20 years ago, it's Microsoft Word. You better know Microsoft Word, right?
(28:23) You don't
(28:23) get a job, right? 10 years ago, it's you better be digital. What does digital mean?
(28:28) Maybe you have some apps on your phone. You're using some software beyond Microsoft Word to help you with your, you're using Google, maybe, you know, things like 10 years ago. And now it's like, it's embedded. We need to be on top of AI. Think about it as your little competitor, if you are on top of it and you know what your competitor doing, then you'll always be one step of your competitor.
(28:49) Jeremy Au: Yeah. So,
(28:50) Elena Chow: you think of AI. So, if you think of AI replacing your jobs, then AI is my competitor, then I better be one mile in front of my competitor. Start now.
(28:58) I can't predict exactly what (29:00) jobs will be replaced at what rate.
(29:01) You know, right
(29:02) now we can only guess on some ends, but the safest net for anyone in the job market right now is to be on top. Which means to use AI, join communities, learn together, whatever you wanna do.
(29:14) Jeremy Au: I agree with you. I think the way I think about, it's like 20 years ago, everybody that was in the know, was learning Microsoft Word. If you didn't learn Microsoft Word, you probably don't have a white collar job. You just have to use email.
(29:26) And 10 years ago, people had to start learning how to use digital apps. Salesforce, HubSpot, but some kind of CRM or process embedded in the system.
(29:34) Yeah. People were starting to learn that. And if you don't learn how to do any of those systems, I think your jobs are getting cut today. Because if you don't know how to digitize the system and you're doing everything through Microsoft, which was technology 20 years ago, it's gonna go byebye, right? And so, I think today's technology, that I think, you have to be on top.
(29:49) Elena Chow: Species, one has to be a ferocious learner.
(29:51) Jeremy Au: I don't wanna be a learner, I just wanna relax.
(29:53) I know how to do Google Slides already. I already know how to do Google Docs. I already know how to use (30:00) Slack.
(30:00) Elena Chow: I get worried for people. Because the raise is like, before you can even run to the 50 meters, I trained 10 years to hit this three- hour mark for marathon.
(30:10) And now, I'm going to train for two and a half hours. It's tiring and that's why I feel. Be part of a community of learners.
(30:18) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(30:19) Elena Chow: I think that's essential because we have to help each other.
(30:21) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(30:21) Elena Chow: Yeah. It's hard to learn all on your own.
(30:23) When you're in school, we have classmates, we have teachers and all that. You rely on each other
(30:27) Jeremy Au: Right.
(30:28) Elena Chow: to learn.
(30:29) Jeremy Au: It's so tiring. I said the marathon is a good example, and then
(30:31) Elena Chow: No, but really, if you talk about jobs of the future, securing your job, if you talk about the impact of AI, which is real, then it's gotta be this.
(30:38) Jeremy Au: You mentioned skills of the future and markets of the future as well as professions.
(30:44) Elena Chow: I have this model that I've been using to guide people in terms of thinking about their careers, it's like a Venn diagram.
(30:52) Think about it. Circle on top, skills of the future.
(30:55) Jeremy Au: Mm-hmm.
(30:56) Elena Chow: Markets of the future.
(30:57) Jeremy Au: Mm.
(30:57) Elena Chow: And then the third circle, (31:00) industry of the future.
(31:00) Jeremy Au: Mm.
(31:01) Elena Chow: So, whenever you think about, okay, which job should I take? Should I leave this job for the next job? You just evaluate all these three to help you make sense of whether you should leave or not.
(31:12) Of course, there are other considerations like toxic environments, culture, bad boss and all that. But I'm not gonna even talk about that.
(31:19) Jeremy Au: Right.
(31:19) Elena Chow: I'll talk about the more practical database considerations. I'll look at all these three
(31:25) when evaluating your job. So, as you ask me what kind of skills is needed, then I'll look at the skill quadrant. If I look at the skill quadrant, what kind of skills would be needed in the future? That helps you think about it. Because the information is all out there.
(31:38) if you have this mental model, it helps you put better use or more efficient research to arrive at a conclusion.
(31:44) Jeremy Au: Okay. So, let's talk about that. What's the marketof the future?
(31:46) What's the industry?
(31:47) Elena Chow: Yeah. So, I think markets of the future, the way I look at it is, which market is a growth market?
(31:52) Jeremy Au: Mm.
(31:52) Elena Chow: So, I was speaking to this Canadian gentleman who moved to China 20 years ago. Not just him, but another colleague as (32:00) well. At that time, they saw that China had the growth potential. China was the market of the future.
(32:05) Jeremy Au: Mm.
(32:06) Elena Chow: Not many would have seen it because, not many would have taken the risk to relocate themselves from Canada to China. But this person saw it.
(32:15) Jeremy Au: Mm.
(32:15) Elena Chow: Because he believed that was a market of the future.
(32:17) And it could be backed by research because of that move. He's now able to retire at 40 because he made some good moves and set up a company, right? You know, or join various other companies. So, I think that's kind of what I meant. Maybe, 10 years ago you would say, or maybe Indonesia.
(32:35) Jeremy Au: Right.
(32:35) Elena Chow: So, if you entered Indonesia early and you are in the right business, you would've reaped the benefits of this really fast growing economy, right?
(32:44) Jeremy Au: Right.
(32:44) Elena Chow: For someone today, I do not want to be too judgemental. I think you need to see for yourself, which market you think could be growing? And it depends on your interests.
(32:54) Jeremy Au: Marco, would you say?
(32:55) Elena Chow: I would say if I'm a Singaporean, I would look at Vietnam.
(32:59) Jeremy Au: Mm-hmm.
(32:59) Elena Chow: If (33:00) you dare, a bigger risk will become companies like Cambodia.
(33:04) Jeremy Au: Mm-hmm.
(33:04) Elena Chow: There are businesses doing very well in Cambodia in certain areas, right?
(33:07) Like FinTech, financial inclusion, and things like that. So, those could be potential markers of the future. But if you don't go there, you don't know, right? So, I think some people say, okay, perhaps US is still could potentially a growth market. So, maybe you might want to consider the US.
(33:23) Jeremy Au: Right.
(33:24) Elena Chow: So, I would say for any person, you've gotta do your research and figure out, okay, like which markets do I see has that potential for me, right? And then perhaps, either I move to that market or I find a job that gives me exposure to that market.
(33:39) Jeremy Au: Okay, I wrote down Vietnam and Cambodia, right?
(33:42) Elena Chow: No, seriously, there could be markets of the future as well because their growth markets, right?
(33:46) Jeremy Au: So, I think Vietnam looks better and better. So, I'd say like, 10 years ago, I think if you say Vietnam, I think people have been a big question mark.
(33:55) Yeah. But I think of the China plus war strategy with the Trump's first (34:00) administration, and the anti-China policy, Chinese people moving to Vietnam. I think there's definitely a sense of, Chinese capitals flowing in, American capitals are flowing in. Yeah. Singapore capitals flowing to Vietnam.
(34:09) Elena Chow: Don't underestimate some of the other countries. I've been to Laos two times this year. The amount of development, coffee plantations, durian plantations, avocados turning into avocado oil.
(34:21) I think what I'm trying to say is don't be too comfortable in where you are right now. if there's an opportunity to have an exposure to that market,
(34:29) Jeremy Au: right
(34:29) Elena Chow: doesn't mean you need to relocate, but maybe it could be a job.
(34:32) Exposure to the market,
(34:34) that market has potential.
(34:35) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(34:35) Elena Chow: I think that's one. And then the third part of my model
(34:39) will
(34:40) be the industries of the future.
(34:41) Jeremy Au: Mm.
(34:41) Elena Chow: So, what are potential industries of the future? I think everyone talks about, of course AI is indisputable,
(34:48) right?
(34:48) Yeah.
(34:49) Jeremy Au: Be better to serve the master.
(34:51)
(34:51) Elena Chow: So, if you give an opportunity to do anything in AI or be exposed to anything in AI, please go there. Maybe three years ago, it was (35:00) crypto.
(35:00) Like,
(35:00) I ran a crypto community for many years. Somebody who is in a more traditional tech industry startup. As well told me, guess what? And he's a coachee of mine. After deliberating, I've decided to take up this role in crypto and I said, " good for you. " Right? Because it's potentially an indu, still an no matter how controversial it is,
(35:21) Jeremy Au: right
(35:21) Elena Chow: it's an industry of the future.
(35:22) Jeremy Au: Right.
(35:23) Elena Chow: And then of course, all this thing about clean tech energy, renewable energies, and everything, that whole bucket in sustainability, Is the industry of the future too. Right.
(35:31) Jeremy Au: Controversial.
(35:32) Elena Chow: But,
(35:32) Jeremy Au: not controversial, but
(35:33) Elena Chow: clear.
(35:33) Jeremy Au: Quite clear. But I gotta ask you if these are the markets Of the future.
(35:37) What would you say are the ones that you would not recommend? Okay, but which markets or which industries would you say like, hey, if I was your mentee, and then you'd be like between two jobs of two different things,
(35:49) I wouldn't recommend this.
(35:51) Elena Chow: Don't get assassinated by people in those industries.
(35:53) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(35:53) Elena Chow: I hope this is a neutral answer. If you are a growth minded person, and you're (36:00) ambitious and you want to be the top 1% of your all the time,
(36:04) go for those industries that I talked about.
(36:06) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(36:06) Elena Chow: Right.
(36:07) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(36:07) Elena Chow: Because there was this particular coachee who is not a risk taker.
(36:11) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(36:11) Elena Chow: Very happy to have a steady income
(36:14) Jeremy Au: mm-hmm.
(36:15) Elena Chow: not unstable.
(36:16) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(36:16) Elena Chow: Get destabilized,
(36:17) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(36:17) Elena Chow: right? And go for mainstream industries, right? Industries that have proven themself.
(36:22) Jeremy Au: Right.
(36:22) Elena Chow: For example, in tech would be e-commerce, right? eEcommerce, 5, 10 years ago was the industry of the future.
(36:28) Jeremy Au: Right.
(36:29) Elena Chow: Right? When Amazon started was 20 years ago, industry of the future but now it's mainstream.
(36:33) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(36:34) Elena Chow: So, go into that because you may not grow as fast.
(36:37) Jeremy Au: Right.
(36:38) Elena Chow: But you may not lose your job so easily even the right job within the sector. FMCG.
(36:44) I came from FMG for 15 years. None of the recessions had any impact on us.
(36:48) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(36:48) Elena Chow: You saw more.
(36:49) We saw
(36:49) more shampoos and more diapers.
(36:50)
(36:50) Jeremy Au: Yeah.
(36:50) Elena Chow: So, there's a difference between growth, mm-hmm, industries, or in what I call industry of the future. And they're gonna be around, but they are more stable.
(36:57) Jeremy Au: Right.
(36:58) Elena Chow: Right. As an individual, you need (37:00) to recognize your own. If you're ambitious and you wanna grow fast and not everybody's there and doesn't mean that you're any worse.
(37:07) It's just your own preference.
(37:09) Jeremy Au: Great. On that note, thank you so much for sharing. I thought it was interesting to hear the learnings and observe differences between our own personal behaviors as well as the behaviors of employees. Secondly, thanks for sharing the landscape view of all the countries in Southeast Asia from Singapore to Philippines, Indonesia to Vietnam, Malaysia.
(37:28) Elena Chow: The land of good food.
(37:29) I'll
(37:29) Jeremy Au: give you 30 seconds point of view on Thailand talent.
(37:32) Elena Chow: Thailand hasn't changed much.
(37:34) Jeremy Au: It hasn't the mature market it feels like.
(37:35) Elena Chow: Yeah, it hasn't changed much. There hasn't been too much development. Even there aren't that many startups coming from there. VCs are not quite investing there. Traditional businesses, tourism, and all that, It could be good for them. That means they're in a good space, right?
(37:49) Jeremy Au: Okay, so there's that. And then the last point, thanks for sharing about what you think are the jobs over the next decade from 2025 to 2035.
(37:56) It'll be interesting because when we are still around (38:00) 2035, we can record, follow episode, be like, so did this come true. Soft skills an important thing. Should we just become a super genius data analysis? I'm not saying it's, you know,
(38:11) Elena Chow: I won't be in my phone.
(38:12) Jeremy Au: Yeah. I like
(38:12) Elena Chow: to
(38:12) Jeremy Au: our AI version, that'll be very good looking. No wrinkles, recapping the episode.
(38:18) Elena Chow: Exactly. You wouldn't even tell it's 10 years later.
(38:21) Jeremy Au: Okay.
(38:21) Elena Chow: AI would've changed my face.
(38:23) Jeremy Au: No, thank you.
(38:23) Elena Chow: Thank you, Jeremy! Good to be here. Great chat as always.