Jackson Aw: The Collectibles Boom, AI-Driven IP & Founder Growth from Dreamer to Builder – E583

"The truth is the industry would have to utilize it. If not, they’ve already been utilizing it for at least the last two or three years. Whether it’s creating short-form content, animation, or just generally concept artwork—anything that can be shortened will be shortened with the use of AI. Now, the morality—the moral issue aside—there are a lot of debates going on, so I won’t touch that. The moral issue aside, the truth is whether you like it or not, it’s here to stay. It’s here to, above all, empower you to create your concepts into reality in a much shorter time. And that’s why I think AI is already heavily utilized across all kinds of creative industries." - Jackson Aw, founder of Mighty Jaxx

"It scares me a little bit because—with the use of that, certain content will be quite terrifying. It might not reflect the truth, and you’ll see a lot more stuff that is just pure, you know, bullshit in that way. And that scares me as a parent, right? Because they browse YouTube and stuff like that. Sometimes you get like weird AI Spider-Man out there that are—it’s super weird and it’s so freaky to them. But they’re like, oh, this is Spider-Man. I think that’s quite terrifying on the extreme end of it." - Jackson Aw, founder of Mighty Jaxx

"Physical object or representation of a design or something that's creative IP that you want to have displayed anywhere in the world or anywhere in your home—it really helps you be in the environment, right? Now, if it’s digital, of course it’s kind of hard to have that tactile feel of things. And I think that’s one thing that’s never gonna go away. It’s a similar thing—I think maybe not the best example—but like LPs, like vinyl records versus Spotify. You know, it’s one of those things." - Jackson Aw, founder of Mighty Jaxx

Jackson Aw, founder of Mighty Jaxx, joins Jeremy Au after three years to reflect on his leadership journey, the evolution of the global collectibles industry, and how personal growth reshaped his business decisions. They discuss the shift from creative spontaneity to strategic discipline, the emotional psychology behind collectibles, and how AI and tariffs are changing how physical products are made and consumed. Jackson also shares how fatherhood made him more patient, why trust in the next generation is now a core business strategy, and what it takes to stay relevant in a fast-moving market driven by youth culture and fragmented IP.

01:29 Downturns forced a new leadership mindset: Jackson shifted from high-velocity experimentation to a more cautious, calculated approach to survive the macro climate.

04:20 Collectibles meet emotional and nostalgic needs: Consumers seek affordable joy and identity through physical items tied to their childhood and passions.

09:00 Young women are reshaping the collectibles market: 70% of Mighty Jaxx’s 18–25-year-old customer base are female, a reversal from the male-dominated past.

11:16 Parenthood created better discipline and empathy: Jackson became more intentional with his time and temperament after becoming a father of two.

14:15 The future of IP is fast, digital, and creator-led: New intellectual properties now emerge in weeks via community platforms, flipping the traditional studio-first model.

24:31 Operational agility gives Mighty Jaxx an edge: The company delivers products in as little as three months, unlike legacy players that plan years ahead.

35:25 Founder growth means delegation and resilience: Jackson now invests in mentoring lieutenants, separating personal identity from business outcomes, and accepting that scale requires letting go.

(00:59) Jeremy Au: Hey, I'm really excited to have you on the show after three long years!

(01:04) Jackson Aw: That's right. It's been a while. 

(01:05) Jeremy Au: I think at that time we were recording, I think it was like voice only and it was online, so it was just nice to kind of like be in person and, I don't know, have a sequel episode. 

(01:15) Jackson Aw: Yeah. Yeah. Really excited when you reach out to me about it. I was like, has it really been trigger so much things happened?

(01:20) Jeremy Au: I know, right? It was like the pandemic. We survived it. Congratulations! And then, obviously, we continue growing business a lot. There's obviously a lot of the, there was a war, still a war and then not as the tariffs. So, lots of different things. So, I think we would love to do actually, you know, learn a reflection about what you've learned over the past few years and also how things are changing as well for you and the business as well.

(01:42) So, I guess the first question is, could you introduce yourself real quick? Yeah. 

(01:46) Jackson Aw: Yeah. So, my name is Jackson. I'm the founder of Mighty Jaxx. So, what we do is that we create collectibles and we deliver them to over 80 countries of collectors. You would find them in stores like Toys (02:00) R Us, Miniso, Hot Topic, depending on which region.

(02:03) And upon us, we work with are like Warner Brothers, Disney, Nickelodeon, and we use the IPs that I grew up with, and younger gen grew up with and create a unique collectibles and toys out of it. 

(02:17) Jeremy Au: Ah, amazing! What you do. So, I guess the curious thing is like, you know, you said that things have changed a lot over the past few years, right?

(02:24) So, what do you think have been some of the things that you, from your perspective, have changed over the past few years from your perspective? 

(02:29) Jackson Aw: Well, I think the macro situation, yeah, of everything really helps to educate me what kind of leadership and yeah, you know, North Star that we really want to be, you know, where we want to go.

(02:44) And in the last few years, like I think it was the first downturn that I ever experienced in my entrepreneurship journey. ' Cause I started in 2012, so, that was a little bit down but it's not that bad. Right? And then the last one and a half years, or (03:00) two years ago, it got really bad with other things that's happening and that really shine a, you know, a new reality on how companies will need to do to survive this period.

(03:13) Jeremy Au: So, it's interesting 'cause you shone a light on how you lead. How have you, I guess, changed as a leader over the past few years? 

(03:20) Jackson Aw: Well, when we think about if we can create a painting of how I usually am leading team, usually I'm the balloon. And then my team is the house or the anchor, that house meeting, you know, raining a little bit 

(03:34) because 

(03:35) I'm a dreamer by nature, 

(03:36) Jeremy Au: right

(03:37) Jackson Aw: and so, when we go on a path of creating new verticals or want to ex, you know, do some exploration, uh, I tend to go all out and get that first proof or concept out while taking care of the core business as well. However, I think when the reality, you know, sort of, you know, get more apparent, you know, over the last one and a half years, I have to be a little bit more(04:00) cautious and prudent in a way

(04:02) to test out new theories. Right? But before that, it was like, you know, venture money and all that. You could just, okay, I'm just gonna do it, and let's see if it works. But now it's a way more calculated method of looking at it. 

(04:15) If it 

(04:16) makes sense. 

(04:16) Jeremy Au: Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. Yeah.

(04:18) And so, what's interesting is that obviously, I, myself, I felt like I've had to become more calculated as well, right? Because when things are going well, I think you can just explore. But now it feels like there's a lot, not only tough times, but also uncertain times, right? Things keep changing along the way, right?

(04:33) Because I think during this few years, not only have we had the recession several years ago from inflation driven by the war. Because I had AI. We also had the tariffs as well. I'm just kind curious, you see, like, do you read the news more often now? Like, 

(04:45) Jackson Aw: Oh 

(04:45) man, I read all kinds of news every day at any point of the day just moving so fast especially the last two weeks, it's ridiculous to think that it could actually operate

(04:54) on a global level. Yeah. In such an agile manner, if you put it that way, right? It's (05:00) almost spontaneous in the way that something happened, yeah, usually through a tweet. 

(05:04) Jeremy Au: Yeah, exactly. It's a tweet, right? It's back in the day. It's like, I know business owners like wake in the morning, they open the straight times, so, you know, it's like, oh, the economy is changing.

(05:12) Okay. I better, you know, too late, too late.

(05:14) Sorry. That's so funny. No, and I think it's interesting because, you know, you're doing this for the collectibles business, right? Which is I think to me is interesting because you know, even for myself, I'm one of those people who don't understand collectibles very well. So, you know, but to me it feels like it's different businesses, right?

(05:30) One is, it's obviously, uh, luxury is affordable. Luxury is a hobby that obviously people have. That's one. So, it's part of their dreams or aspirations. I would say that's one. And so of course, there's a sort of physicality of it, like goods, component. And also there's, that's also interesting. There's a community part of it, right?

(05:45) That, you know, people discuss and talk about it. And obviously that applies for different things, right? You could be with those three things, you could become a, you know, video gamer, you could be, you know, enjoying hockey. Yeah. But you know, collectibles. I'm just kind of curious, so how do you think about, (06:00) I guess, you know, for those who don't understand collectibles, how do you normally kind of explain collectibles as a, you know, community or hobby?

(06:06) Yeah, 

(06:07) Jackson Aw: I think when, you know, when the idea of collectible started, yeah, way long ago. Right. 80 years ago maybe. Yeah. You know, and any kind of thing is a collectible. Yeah. Right. Watches, plates or Yeah, any, you know, all kind of random stuff. But because the information flows so much right now, and we are also connected with everyone around the world, yeah,

(06:25) you begin to realize that a very niche passion or joy of yours is suddenly not quite niche. Yeah. And turns out that's like, you know, I don't know a million people that loves tasting different kind of hot dogs or whatever, you know? And, so through that, this little communities start building.

(06:44) Jeremy Au: Yeah. 

(06:44) Jackson Aw: And toys is one of those, collectible toys are one of those that are, you know, like a breakout category in a sense, yeah, especially recently, the last two years, you see a lot of celebrities usually, the newer generation of stars or KOLs that are really into collectibles.(07:00) 

(07:00) Yeah. And so as you express that through the any form of media, then, you know, they influence the way that you know, when you're like when 30 years ago, maybe you collect like words r, right? Like put tea or whatever. And that is your collectible. But now it's whether is it shoes, whether is it toys?

(07:17) It's, it takes on a different form. 

(07:18) Jeremy Au: Yeah. 

(07:19) Jackson Aw: Yeah. 

(07:19) Jeremy Au: I mean, for these key opinion leaders, obviously, quite interesting because it's also driving that wave. I mean, I have to admit. Yeah. You know, as one of those like nerdy people I've always loved, uh, you know, like have like the Warhammer 4,000, some of that dystopian, my God.

(07:35) You know, and I also listen to Dungeons and Dragons, like, you know, those table games as a, a way to like, I don't know, background, you know, conversation of people having fun. So yeah, it's a niche thing that most people in my workplace would be like, what? Dungeons and Dragons? You know, like science fiction.

(07:50) I was like, but yeah, it's something that's become more, you know, international and, you know, but I think what's interesting is that, you know, how does like a hobby like that translate (08:00) to collectibles, right? I mean, because a lot of these, you know, community, shouldn't they, you know, for example, stay purely digital? You know, why is that need to make it into like a physical good that is in a store for discovery?

(08:13) Like you know, like why not just keep it all online? I'm just kind of curious. Yeah. 

(08:16) Jackson Aw: Well that's, I think that has to be answered. In a way that, you know, the human psych or the human, nature of things, wants, like with everything, we like to own things.

(08:26) Yeah. You know, whether it is a digital or physical, we like to own things. Yeah. And at least, I, I would think that physical object or representation of a design or something that's creative IP that you wanna have displayed anywhere in the world or anywhere in your home. It, it really helps you be in the environment.

(08:45) Right? Now, if it's, if it's digital, of course it's kind of hard , to have that tactile feel of things. And I think that's one thing that's never gonna go away. It's a similar thing. I think, maybe not the best example, but like LPs like vinyl record. Yeah. Right. Or Spotify, you know, it's (09:00) one of those things.

(09:00) Yeah. 

(09:01) Jeremy Au: No, I think there's a really good, like, I like the idea of ownership and physicality, right? So, what are the kind of personas that the people who buy collectibles? Is it like, I guess somebody who's like a hobbyist? Is it somebody who's like a investor? Like, what are the kind of personas that you think have people who buy

(09:16) collectibles from your perspective? 

(09:17) Jackson Aw: Yeah. Where collectibles and, and toys in particular, it's really hard to blanket them into a certain group of people, because usually that would mean they have a certain need that needs to be addressed, right? But in this case, it's not quite so, and on both extreme ends, you have your

(09:35) so-called the, "the larger population" where the idea of owning a collectible, having it on your work desk, or at home, it is a ready a almost like a habitual and lifestyle type of thing, right? So to them it's about buying like, more affordable, 10 US, 20 US dollars type of item. And be able to amass like the food collection in that way.

(09:58) So, these are very general sort (10:00) of group of demographic, right? So, usually they are like 18 to 25 years old. So, you might be interested to know that 70% of them are actually female. That's driving this portray. Now, if you talk about 20 years ago, 15 years ago, collectible toys, usually 80%, 90% are male dominated.

(10:17) Yeah. Like Star Wars, Star Trek, stuff like that. And on the other end of the spectrum, you have very mature buyers who has been in this for a very long time. And they are the core fans who would spend upwards of 10 grand a year, 20 grand a year just to get their collectibles and often they come from all walks of life.

(10:35) Like there isn't, yeah, a particular, you know, 

(10:37) Jeremy Au: yeah, 

(10:38) Jackson Aw: stream. 

(10:38) Jeremy Au: Yeah. Man, I think it's interesting because, you know, I think even for myself, I always, you know, I feel like, yeah, I wanna buy some collectibles from time to time as well. And yeah, I was like recently looking at my workplace, you know, work set up and I was like, oh, I'm reading Marie Kondo.

(10:52) They have a new book called Joy at Work. So, I was talking about, you know, reconfiguring your desk and for items that bring you joy. And I'm like, okay, you know, I should put a photo (11:00) frame in my family, you know, because, you know, otherwise the desk is very like, you know, utilitarian, right? and I think it's interesting 'cause you say something about, you know, how it's like a affordable, kind of like joy, right?

(11:08) Or luxury here. And, and I think it's interesting because obviously, there are very big luxuries, I don't know, like, I guess a vacation would be a very big luxury, right? A vacation experiential. When you talk about, I'm, I'm kind of curious, like what do you think are the emotions or the experiences that collectible brings for somebody for, and explain that for somebody who, you know,

(11:28) yeah, you may not necessarily understand collectible. Yeah. 

(11:31) Jackson Aw: Yeah. Well, really like a lot of this thinking that a collectible collect, sorry, a collector would have usually stems from, you know, your childhood, 

(11:40) right? You consume all kinds of content, right? It could be SpongeBob, it could be whatever.

(11:45) And through this journey, one part, one particular case could be that, you never could buy the item that you wanted, right? Right. Because you don't have disposable income. Mm, yeah. Yeah. So, naturally, as you got into that stage of your life, you want to portray (12:00) something that reminds you of a time which is much more simpler,

(12:03) yeah, and brings you a joy in its purest form. And that could possibly mean a, you know, a figurine or toy like that, so that's, one particular you know, segment of, of consumers, I would say. 

(12:14) Jeremy Au: Mm, that's interesting. I mean, I think I'm a parent of a 4-year-old and 2-year-old, and actually one of the fun parts has been buying toys for them that I would've enjoyed if I had them in the past.

(12:23) Oh my God. So it was like, you know, like a Pikachu because you know, I enjoyed Pokemon, but obviously, you know, I was on Pokemon Red and you, but I had a Pikachu as my main, you know, you know, I start out with 

(12:33) all that stuff. 

(12:33) Jackson Aw: I would sometimes argue with my kids to influence them to buy a certain character instead of the character that they choose because I like it more.

(12:41) Jeremy Au: Yeah. And it's true. Right? How old are your kids now? 

(12:44) Jackson Aw: They are five and three. 

(12:46) Jeremy Au: Yeah. How do you, I think there's also been a big change over the past few years, right? You know, those three years, how do you think you've changed as a person? I mean, now you're like in a dad, you know,

(12:54) fully a dad, I guess? . 

(12:55) Jackson Aw: Yeah. Five years experience. 

(12:56) Jeremy Au: Five 

(12:56) years experience, you know, it's like job experience. So, five years experience. Well, you're (13:00) hired, right? You know? So, how has being a dad kind of like changed you from your perspective? Yeah, 

(13:03) Jackson Aw: actually, I, I find myself, uh, being better at man time management, you know, last time it's just about work.

(13:11) There's not much life involved and then that goes into a much better place, but also the temperament that I have at work because the kids, you gotta be very patient. Right, right. Right? And that actually helps me to either, you know, own certain things that otherwise I would have knee jerk effect or anything like that.

(13:29) Yeah. So, that's one that was very, very helpful in that. But I find myself, as you mentioned, like buying toys or educational stuff or kids, most parents would want the best possible, right? Which does not necessarily mean most expensive or anything like that. And so, because we want the best for them.

(13:49) The sort of budget they set aside for it, it can be quite, Yeah. Right? And that got me thinking about edutainment side of things. Yeah. And what will my kid want to have, does this engage (14:00) them? So, we're actually building something along that line which is outside from like all the collectible toy site.

(14:05) And I got the kids to come and pass the product. And it's rare fun. Like it helps me broaden my thoughts a little bit more. 

(14:13) Jeremy Au: I, it makes a lot of sense, right? I mean, for every parent they like to share with their children about brought them joy in our own childhood, right? So, to some extent, Pokemon brought me happiness.

(14:22) So, when my kids wanna talk about Pokemon, I'm like, okay, you know, like it's, I'm not against it. I'm not super for it, but I'm like mildly favorable, right? And I, as an indulgent dad who can provide, you know? Yeah. That's, that's a struggle 

(14:35) Jackson Aw: though. That's, that's a struggle. 

(14:36) Jeremy Au: That is the part, right? Yeah. No, I think it's interesting and I think obviously what's interesting is, like you said, is it's interesting about to see the demographics have changed because I think 20 years ago, I think even when I was like a teenager, you know, the idea of collectibles and obviously, I was part of the gaming group, we would, you know, read comics together and stuff like that as well.

(14:55) But obviously, collectibles was always like, you're like, like you said, probably male, very, (15:00) very into it. And that, it's interesting to see, like you said, the mainstreaming of it. Right? You know, like you said, it's more women, there's younger people. And I think all of us also, I guess us millennials, also becoming parents as well.

(15:12) Right? So, there's an interesting and go about it. How do you think the shape of collectibles is result or the art of collecting will change, you know, over time? Because, you know, we've seen change so much over the past 20 years. And now, I'm just kind of curious why you look at the next 20 years?

(15:25) What do you think are the some of the aspects do you think are part of that change? 

(15:28) Jackson Aw: Well, when I started collecting, it's still in a very niche form. What I'm talking about is like designer collectibles, like those are very, very niche when I started right. Maybe like 15 years ago. But of course, now, as we can see on a lot of different forms of media, like the idea of designer collectibles are quite mainstream.

(15:47) Then you have some of the more heritage, ones like you mentioned comic, right? Look how far comic. It's, yeah, oh my gosh it's unthinkable that yeah, 20 years ago that it could, it could (16:00) become a billion dollar, you know, blockbuster franchise. Yeah. In, in that way. And, and so, this conversation is really about the future of IP,

(16:08) right? Where is it gonna come from and how can we see it today? Even for Dungeons and Dragons. Right? D and D went into movie, went into all kinds of stuff, even spinoffs from D and D, you know, like Dungeon Master, Matt Mercer and stuff like that became yeah, superstar in their own, right?

(16:25) Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. Five Pitch. How, how incredible is that they even have their own animation in Amazon and stuff like that? 

(16:32) Jeremy Au: Yeah. 

(16:33) Jackson Aw: So, collectibles where it's going, it has been rock solid and ever booming. We talk about cuts. We talk about shoes, and it will continue to go on an upward trend.

(16:43) Yeah. And now for toys to come in that manner, beyond the retro toys, the new age of toys will formed to become the new IP of, tomorrow. 

(16:52) Jeremy Au: No, I think it's interesting what you talk about IP, because it's a bit of evolution, right? Like if I go back in time, you know, I always remember like, you know, my (17:00) friend made me watch eventually on, you know, that's like, and then I got into it and then I mean, not so into it as him.

(17:07) And then, and of course over time I was like, okay, you know, I was into Star Wars, obviously I wanted a legal Star Wars, not a Millennium Falcon. You know, it's 

(17:14) Jackson Aw: expensive. Like 

(17:15) Jeremy Au: expensive. Yeah. It's like they made more and more advanced versions of that. So, it's just like, and I'm like, where would I store it?

(17:20) And so on, so forth. So, but that was like for a long time, like my bucket list item to buy right as a, you can call it a collectible or at least a toy for display. And then obviously now like Dungeon Dragons. I think my wife recently watched Dungeons Dragons. I don't think she's ever played Dungeon Dragons.

(17:35) But I was like, you know, having a conversation about what to watch. There's a Dungeon and Dragons movie. That was pretty going to it. She really enjoyed. It was pretty, she laughed. She laughed. Yeah. There was some really good jokes. She enjoyed it. And to her, she, I know I was a, I guess I was a missionary evangelizing.

(17:51) Yeah. Not just a drag to my wife, right? You know? So, it's interesting, like you said, to see that expansion. So, I guess one thing you're saying is I think, are you saying that you believe that IP will (18:00) continue to grow more, like more comics, more stories? Is that what you're saying? 

(18:05) Jackson Aw: Well, 

(18:05) I wanna talk a, share a little bit about the IP side because it is the genesis of everything, right?

(18:11) Toys and games. They're all subset of an IP. And if we look at how the NFT situation is, you know, when during the good times, yeah, it's interesting because Disney took decades , to go from a media content to consumer products, and then became a massive IP. 

(18:29) But if you look at Bored Apes or CryptoPunks or anything like that, they took literally days to go the other way around

(18:35) Where they become popularized in such a way. Right? So, the time it takes to create a legacy IP potentially, it could be much shorter in the future. Right, right. And then that will shape culturally, you know, what people consume. Because even, even at our age when we watched the D and D movie, it was really exciting.

(18:54) After that, I went to play a short campaign with my friends. So , I couldn't take it, you know, I wanted to play. My (19:00) point is that when you have the younger generation watching it, then that already defines the path forward for them. 

(19:06) Jeremy Au: Right. 

(19:06) Jackson Aw: So, yeah, powerful. 

(19:08) Jeremy Au: Yeah, powerful stuff. So, I think it's interesting because you know, I think you also implied something else, which is not only new IP, which is new IP brands, but also new channels, right?

(19:16) Because Dungeons and Dragons used to be an in-person thing. Now's a movie, it's anime, which I confess I've watched on the Amazon Prime. I was like, that dude watching it by myself because I was like the movie, I knew my wife could get in, but I was like, this animated version. I was like, it is like, there's only only me watching anyway.

(19:35) But, but I think I, I think what I say I I also think is like multi-channel, I wanna call it multi-format, is I think also a big part of it, right? Like, I think only in the past it was only Disney could, that could go from, you know, movie to figurine to team pop. You know, it feels like everybody's trying to do.

(19:50) All the channels simultaneously. 

(19:52) Jackson Aw: Absolutely. 

(19:53) Jeremy Au: Yeah. 

(19:54) Jackson Aw: Yeah. 

(19:54) Jeremy Au: So, how do you see that continuing to change as well? Like, you know, for, you know, do you think that means like for (20:00) collectibles, does it mean like more fragmentation and more niche types of products? Or does it mean like different price points? How do you see that?

(20:08) Jackson Aw: So this is is good point to touch on, because for us, we actually have products from five US all the way to 20,000 US. So you get, uh. You get like litter statutes, collectibles, you get like blind boxes, which is all the rave right now. You have larger pieces than blind boxes all the way.

(20:27) Couple hundred US type of thing, artistic pieces, as well as statues. You know, half a meter tall, life, life size type statues. So, I like to see this as a collecting, like a journey, right? Right. So, as you progress in life, so that's the things that you would want to either enlarge in size or be more limited so that you're the one of 200 only people in the world that collect them.

(20:51) So, I think collecting is part of, part of a life's journey. If you're into that, that hobby and that will only get deeper as you, you know, (21:00) mature in life. 

(21:00) Jeremy Au: Okay. I think what's interesting as well is that, do you also feel like it get, it is getting more niche as well? Like do you have to do more like, I don't call it product lines or IP types, you know, and I guess with AI coming there could be like a million IPs.

(21:13) So, so I'm just kind of curious how you think about that. 

(21:16) Jackson Aw: They're usually, it's a like, just like in fashion. Yeah. They usually, it's a certain look and genre of you. Yeah. Flavor of the man. It's usually about six months, nine months pivot, and then that get shift quite a little bit. Yeah. So, it's just having the pals on the, on the game.

(21:31) Like of course I'm not the one because I grew up with like punk rock and Yeah, yeah, i'm still listening to bring money too and watch Bleach a lot. You know, I, I'm pretty, I'm pretty stuck in that era, so I, I'm not the best person to like, okay, let's do this. Right. Yeah. Yeah. But the younger then, like, especially the 20 something or younger in our office, would usually come up with ideas.

(21:55) Yeah. Based off their peers and what is the next author, you know, anime or (22:00) next author IP. 

(22:00) Jeremy Au: Yeah. 

(22:01) Jackson Aw: Yeah. And that was very helpful because most of the time I'll tell this, I look at it, I'm like, are you sure someone's gonna like this? Like, and they're like, this is the hottest thing ever. I'm like, alright, I'll believe you.

(22:11) You know, I have no authority in like verifying it, but I take a word for it. 

(22:16) Jeremy Au: So, how do you stay in touch with the pals? Because, you know, obviously you don't wanna become that elderly 70 old person who was like, you know, waving your walking stick saying, oh, you know, I, you should listen to the good old, you know.

(22:28) Two thousands, I guess, you know. So, how do you stay in touch with the, I guess the pals sort of pop or the because, especially because it's like moving so quickly as well. 

(22:36) Jackson Aw: I, I think there are, there are two ways to do it, right? One is tangible and one is intangible. Right? The, the tangible part of it,

(22:43) it's in, it's in numbers. So, when you work with any kind of IP companies, whether is it, you know, Toei Animation or you know, Crunchyroll , anything like that, you would get feedback like what other, type of skills that's coming out for this property in the next six months, for example.

(22:59) (23:00) And then they will give you certain highlights, like, oh, this is pretty hard, and sentiment is quite strong. Things like that. Those are all very helpful. But, but I think those are, by the time you hear about that is kind of, you're kind of late to the, to the, to the party a little bit. And then the intangible part is, honestly, with people, because if I usually, for, for design sort of approval, we have like.

(23:21) Five to 10 people in a room. Yeah. And they're all creatives. Yeah. All younger than me. Yeah. And sometimes I find myself, yeah, no, this is not gonna work. And a whole room just stood out in protest, you know? And, and that gives a very strong indication of what's coming up, 

(23:37) Jeremy Au: right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

(23:38) Interesting. 'cause so you've got a interesting, so you're not really part of the taste group, but you have to be in a careful way to not veto. The creatives who are feeding you the reality or 

(23:48) Jackson Aw: the brand won't be able to evolve as, as time go by. Yeah. And you'll be forever be stuck in my image, but that's not why I want 

(23:56) Jeremy Au: Yeah.

(23:56) Jackson Aw: To start a company, you know? 

(23:57) Jeremy Au: Yeah. Like a big 182 2 (24:00) collectibles only, group. And I think what's interesting as well is that you also have a production side as well, right? Because there's a physicality of the collectible. So it's not just, obviously you have a creative house where you're identifying.

(24:09) The current taste and upcoming taste, but also you gotta make a decision about go, no go for production. Right. And the collectibles. So how does that work? You know, what does it make, I dunno. What does it make to create a manufacturer, a collectible that works for your group? 

(24:23) Jackson Aw: Well, I. In the very first form, it happens in like concept art.

(24:28) So it's all 2D images. And, and those images are, or, or concept come out from the, artists that we have in the company. And then it goes to the channels that we have in US, North America, you know, this, UK Europe side of things as well as asia and, and, and China, and Greater China. So different offices will get feedback, will feedback on the designs.

(24:50) And once that clears the final round, it goes into prototyping, right? Getting the treaty done, the treat d printing of the items, look at it as a whole, (25:00) how it looks uniform, after which it goes into actual mass production. Which the holding takes like six months. Or take. Right.

(25:06) Jeremy Au: So it's interesting because there's that time lag as well. So how, how do you, I mean, avoid missing the boat? ' cause you know, I can imagine, like you, you take design and then you understand the taste and then you go, no go. I mean, I, how long would that take? And then, like you say, I think you started mentioning about the production.

(25:22) How long does it take from there all the way to reaching the shop, I guess? And after that, you do marketing to say that's available as well. 

(25:29) Jackson Aw: Yeah. You know the game. 

(25:30) Jeremy Au: Yeah. So, so I'm just kind of curious like, you know, what does the timeframes look like and how do you avoid missing the boat? Yeah. 

(25:37) Jackson Aw: So there's, there's two categories, right?

(25:39) One is artists. For artists, their longevity is much more, further, right? Right. It's much more longer. Right. Because it's not on a particular, right, milestone. Right. So those are generally just, uh. Year marking. Like who, who are artists that we will want to develop more with, with stuff like that.

(25:54) So it's quite easy in that way. The more time sensitive part is probably like the IPs that we (26:00) work with, like, especially big IPs. For example, like, DC comics. Right. Now might be interested to know is that once you, once you want to endeavor on something like that the, the. The licenser or the principal themselves, in this case, Warner Brothers would then share with you, you know, what does the roadmap looks like?

(26:18) What movies are coming out, right? So you can time it accordingly, 

(26:21) Jeremy Au: right? 

(26:22) Jackson Aw: So that helps a lot. Yeah. Now the other one is the operational, excellence, in terms of supply chain, right? Most of, much, much larger companies. As expected, their turnaround time on production is actually one year and a half or so, if not longer, so at this point they would have probably planned out the next three years of products.

(26:45) With little or no margin of, change. Right. For us, we work a little bit differently. We react to market sentiment, so we would quickly put in something, get it out in three months. Since we're still relatively small. Yeah. In (27:00) size. Yeah. So that's how we can. Position a little bit as a David and Goliath dialogue situation.

(27:04) Yeah, 

(27:05) Jeremy Au: yeah, yeah. And really interesting to hear the agility as well, because that lets you move faster as well. I'm kind of curious whether, you know, AI is changing that because, you know, some people are saying like a, you know, AI improves agility. I mean, for example, would AI help you through the, that process diff different stages, does it make more efficient?

(27:25) I'm just kind of curious, how is that changing? 

(27:27) Jackson Aw: So this has a very profound impact on, on both the industry and also academia, right? So I sit on board, school of Designs, advisory Committees, and AI is something that is oddly debate as you can imagine. Yeah. And the way, the way I see the whole picture, and this is aside from my own personal, sentiments, is that the truth is you.

(27:49) The industry would have to utilize it. If not, they already been utilizing for at least the last, two, three years. Whether is it creating short form content or animation or just (28:00) generally concept artwork? Anything that can be shortened, will be shortened with the use of ai. Now, the morality. The, the moral issue aside.

(28:09) There are a lot of debate going on, so I won't, I won't touch that. The moral issue aside, the truth is whether you like it or not, it's, it's here to stay. It's here to above all empower you. To create your concepts and into reality, in a much. Shorter time. And, and that's why I think, that's why I think ai, it's heavily already heavily utilized across all kinds of creative, industries.

(28:29) Jeremy Au: Yeah. I mean, even for us, you know, as a podcast, you know, we are using it to do transcription. We are using it to extract the short videos, helping to shorten our editing process. So, you know, the, the number of man hours per episode has gone down. By an order magnitude, right? So I think it's quite interesting to see that happening as well.

(28:48) How has that, for example, happening? Does it, do you find, for example, in ai, like say in the after site, does it make them faster generating stuff or do they generate more concepts? How, you know, how does that impact the (29:00) artist room from your perspective? Yeah, 

(29:01) Jackson Aw: I, I think what, what the artists or creatives always have, is ideation.

(29:07) Mm, right. That is the genesis of any form of thing that will, will come from that. The, the only question is what kind of tool are you gonna use to visualize it or create it? Hmm. In which case for us, when we want to think about quick concepts just to, just to understand something. If it works, then of course prompting will take like a couple minutes to figure out whether it's a direction we want to go or not.

(29:33) Of course we don't take it wholesale and, and just create products out of it because that would, that wouldn't be any fun, quite honestly. Like we want to create our own things. Right. Yeah. But I can imagine that in many ways, it's AI just quickened some processes that we have always done. So, in the past, if you're a writer, and you have a beautiful concept, you could start writing something or you could have a ghost writer to do something.

(29:55) But in this case, AI could help you fast track, yeah that, (30:00) Right, and to prove a concept. So if it becomes successful, like. You know, whatever, like Harry Potter or, or something that's really successful. Then would that bother you from enjoying the content? Honestly, I don't think so.

(30:12) So this is a, I feel it's a little big of a purist sort of mindset, like Right. And a analog photography. It's. It's like, you know, true photo. Yeah. But digital, you could shoot 10,000 photos and maybe one of them is good, so it's not quite fair. You know, that kind of conversations. 

(30:29) Jeremy Au: Yeah, right. It's funny when you say that way because that's like definitely the debate like 20 years ago.

(30:34) Right. And I think 10 years ago it was about the digital cameras for movies versus, you know, traditional cameras and obviously, and so I think it's an interesting dynamic, obviously today, for that, for AI side as well. And I think it's interesting because, you know, you mentioned about copyright or speed.

(30:51) So I thought what was interesting was that, you know, just this morning I was watching, enemy video. It was a, a parody or satire video, (31:00) and the enemy was called maga, M-A-A-G-A. So make America Do it again. And it showed like, kind of like a studio ghibli version, you know, of what it would be like for.

(31:11) To put an enemy of Trump's story from, you know, the assassination attempt to winning the s to his, the tariff war. So, and it was interesting because, you know, I think the timeline for him generating like a five minute video, which was really funny, and. Went viral on YouTube and all the comments were very positive about it.

(31:29) But you know, I mean obviously it took them about a week and a half, I guess maybe less. I, I dunno, because I guess on the news, you know, so length and then the quality was good, you know, it was very reminiscent of it. So, you know, I made me think a lot of different things of it made me think about copyright, made, think about speed of velocity, made me think about.

(31:46) Niche or fragmentation of content. I don't know. How do you think about that as well? Do you think maybe another way of saying this is like, do you think, how do you think content consumption or IP would change because of ai? 'cause you know, talking about that (32:00) larger view right, of the industry change. 

(32:01) Jackson Aw: I, I think to the extreme and it, it, it scares me a little bit because, with the use of that,

(32:07) certain content, will be quite, terrifying. It might not reflect the truth and you'll see a lot more, stuff that, that is just a pure, you know, bullshit in that way. And that, that scare me as a parent. Right. Because they, they browse YouTube and stuff like that. Yeah. And sometimes you get like weird AI Spider-Man there that like.

(32:27) It's super weird and it's so freaky, but to them they're like, oh, this is Spider-Man. 

(32:31) Jeremy Au: Yeah. It is normal. Yeah. Yeah. 

(32:33) Jackson Aw: So I think that's quite terrifying on the, on the extreme end of it. Yeah. But like any. Technology development over the last, 30 years, it can be used for good tool. And the efficiency rules will be as, as, as quick.

(32:47) So how will we manage this so that it doesn't become like a sky net type of situation? It's, yeah, that's, that's one to think about will make, make the ball smarter people. 

(32:57) Jeremy Au: Yeah. We make, collect the balls of Skynet, you know, along the. (33:00) I'm kind of curious as well, which is, you know, you know, we also talk about the manufacturing side of things and you've obviously, there's, there's bunch of tariffs.

(33:08) And do you see like an impact on that? I mean, I don't know why your factories are based, but, you know, does that, you know, all this trade stuff, does that impact that side of the business? 

(33:17) Jackson Aw: I, I think, as long as you have any kind of physical products Yeah. Manufactured around the world. A European impact just by varying degrees.

(33:26) Right. And your guess is as good as mine because I mean, who knows when the next tweet is gonna come out? Every be we 

(33:32) Jeremy Au: changed already? Yeah, it's all over. 

(33:33) Jackson Aw: Perhaps, you know, before the end of this, recording, I won't be surprised after all. He did pause it for 90 days at this point. But that said,

(33:41) physical products is, is just gonna be more and more, expensive in the long run, which usually implies that, you know, the, the value of of such items will then, increase and accumulate. And the desire would then increase as well, because there's assumingly, much less Yeah. To go around. Yeah.

(33:59) (34:00) So, and so, I think the, the future of collectibles is gonna trend, in a upward manner. Yeah. I also think that it will go into different forms of, media eventually. Yeah. But this, at, at this point, this tariff, situation is really, what can I say? Just Yeah. You have to diversify, I think, into different channels.

(34:17) Yeah. Even Lego is doing it like, just, just by chance. I, I think they were. They were building a factory in Vietnam. To service like, Asia. Right. And then they have a couple of others on the other side of the world to do that. So I think actively companies are know, trying to avoid any kind of, curve ball like this in the 

(34:36) Jeremy Au: future.

(34:36) Yeah, exactly. So I think there's some uncertainty. You know, I think one interesting part I'm kind of curious is, you know, there's obviously a logistics part for your collectibles, right. You know, like. Like, do you like, do collectibles? They, I'm just kind of curious here is like, do they float in a boat to America flying a plane?

(34:54) Like, you know, does it get stopped by customs? I'm just, 'cause I, you know, I've never, I mean, obviously I see the (35:00) front end of the collectibles, but I'm just curious about this back end, you know, of 

(35:03) Jackson Aw: Oh yeah. It's, it's what you imagine. So usually mass products like this in the hundreds of thousands would then.

(35:10) Go by both because that's the most, price efficient, cost efficient type of way to do it. Finally, that changed recently. And, and I read that Apple actually flew like five jets worth of, iPhones directly to the US so that, you know, it's custom text, but not Yeah. Paris in that way. So that might change.

(35:31) They do get checked. In fact, I think up pieces for whatever is an interesting fact, like up pieces or statues or anything like that. Usually the customs are very suspicious of it. They just feel like you're putting cocaine in them or something. Like some, yeah. So more than one time. Yeah. I have, even when I hand carry it, or if you ship it, sometimes they do open it up, drill a hole in it, smell it just to make sure there's nothing in, and then go on.

(35:55) Oh no. So that's, it's just by the time they do it. Value. It's all like destroyed. 

(35:58) Jeremy Au: It's like, (36:00) yeah, 200 pieces, like oh hundred 99. Right? Because the one got drilled. Like, do do that. It's, it's, yeah. I had no idea. Yeah. I mean, it's a fair point. I mean, supposedly because the, you know, the criminal will be like, oh, the art is very sensitive, so, right.

(36:14) It shouldn't drill it. Yeah. 

(36:15) Jackson Aw: Or at an auction and you start 

(36:17) Jeremy Au: beating like millions for it. Yeah. Yeah. So you can claim they shouldn't be drilled, but actually hiding a. Huh, I had no idea about that. So Netflix drama. Yeah. Yeah. Netflix drama. You know, I'm just kind of curious when you look, at a future ahead, how, you know, switching tech a little bit here is like, how do you think you'll continue to change in the years ahead?

(36:33) Right? Because, you know, you've changed a lot over the past three years. When you look at, say, the next three years, you know, in the future, how do you think things will evolve? Like, are you gonna become like, I don't know, I gotta use more ai, I gonna try to become a better dad. I don't know, like what kind of aspects do you think you suspect you would change as a person over the next three years?

(36:51) Jackson Aw: Well, I think I've recently, I've been focusing a lot on, identifying the next generation of talents. And, and that mean a lot (37:00) of work on delegation. How do I that get that? Because, you know, in the beginning part of a, of a business, if we go all in and you're full on, bus, I, I think that's absolutely like,

(37:10) needed. But if you're going for, a marathon, right. Which we are because we just love what we do. Then you can't be that the whole time or you're just like, freaking crash and burn. And, and so I like to think that in the next 10 years, I'll be already able to just even broader strokes

(37:28) you know, focus on more broader strokes, than I am right now. Right. And you have your. Trustee group of Latins that are, are able to make very clearheaded decisions just by themselves, and be confident that they are empowered to do so. So that, that is what I hope to, so we started doing a lot of, sharing sessions.

(37:47) Like one of them is like, you know, like, with Peter Ong, who was, chairman, ESG, and now he's pointed then, and he came and talk about like, you know, servant leadership, stuff like that. How do, how do we get our (38:00) next gen to subscribe to it? 

(38:02) Jeremy Au: Right? Yeah. How, and what kind of advice would you give to other founders who are becoming more of that, you know, leader and system?

(38:11) Any advice you'll give them? 

(38:12) Jackson Aw: I think. Be less hard on yourself. And that, that is very, very difficult to do. If you're a founder for x amount of time. Right. You know, because everything, it, it goes back to you unfortunately, like you're the end of the road. 

(38:23) Jeremy Au: Right. 

(38:24) Jackson Aw: And you're the one holding the hot potato.

(38:26) Right. So, I, I do, meet up my, my peers as well, other founders on that. You know, we are, we're all humans, right? So, so certain things might hit very hard emotionally, although you know that there is the best thing to do for the company, right? And trying to reason it and trying to understand that that is for a cause is so important for your wellbeing.

(38:47) And I never, in the last few since we met, I always taught that. It was like bushy and all that, and we can just power through everything. Now. No, when going through what I did. Mm, it will happen in one way or another, but (39:00) how do you manage it with your support? Whether it is your family or your friends or, you know, fellow founders.

(39:06) Yeah. That was so critical for me. And I see other people go through that as well. 

(39:09) Jeremy Au: I mean, wouldn't founders sometimes feel like I have to be harder than myself because no one else is gonna be hard on me and everybody is counting on me to make this company happen, right? Like 

(39:20) Jackson Aw: the. That, that, that is how I started thinking.

(39:23) Right. You know, I'm the beacon, so everyone must fall in line and support that. But increasingly I find that having other beacons and allowing them to fail, it's, it could be critical to the growth of the company into much larger than I think it is. 'Cause at every point of growth. My thinking was just, oh, maybe we're this.

(39:44) But when I talk to someone else and bounce some ideas, it became this. It became that. It became that, and suddenly I became much broader than I ever thought I would be. 

(39:52) And that cannot be achieved by, by, by a singular, person, you know? Right. That, that literally takes a village to, to have that mindset.

(39:59) Yeah. And I (40:00) find that that might be something that, you really have to find the right people to do. And it's so difficult in Singapore. 

(40:07) Jeremy Au: And how do you find them in Singapore? Wherever. How do you find the right people from your perspective? I mean, 

(40:14) Jackson Aw: well, Singapore is a very unique situation.

(40:16) Because if, if you're Singapore and you're local, or you know, it's, it's this, and our life is chart for us, right? All the way to HDP and so on and so forth, right? You literally don't have to bother. If you're average hardworking, like you really don't have to worry about it. Your life is chart.

(40:32) But because your life is chart, you never experience extreme. Yeah. Failure, right? You never ex experience extreme, happiness of something. Right? But when you look at, highly competitive, countries, China, Korea. Japan. It, it takes a lot for someone in a remote village in, in China to be assigned a position in Shanghai, at, at that level.

(40:56) So they have to be. A highly intellect and (41:00) incredibly hard working before they can even reach to that point. 

(41:02) Jeremy Au: Right. 

(41:03) Jackson Aw: And I realized that heavily when I went and I talked to them and they're all like way smarter than me and they're way younger than me. 

(41:07) And begin to learn. 

(41:08) Right? And, and so because of the environment in Singapore in particular, it's, it's a little bit hard because we do everything the school tell us to doula, right?

(41:16) So we only know what, what they teach us, right. And so breaking rules might not come as a norm, but if starting a company is not about breaking rules and breaking the norm, then what it did, what it did, what is it? 

(41:28) Jeremy Au: Right? Yeah. Yeah. 

(41:29) Jackson Aw: So that's why I think, to do that, you unfortunately, you, you just have to get the people to the best of your ability, like assess it, you know, through certain tasks or, or, and then move on on a couple years journey with them.

(41:43) And, and I've successfully done that for a few, of my most trusted, partners in the company. 

(41:48) Jeremy Au: Yeah. And you know, I think, you know, you started talking about, you know, how you've changed this person and how many years has it been now with the company since you founded it? 

(41:57) Jackson Aw: 13 now. 13 

(41:58) Jeremy Au: years. 13 years.

(41:58) Wow. That's such a, you know, (42:00) you know, huge, you know, more than a decade. So if you had a time travel machine, I mean, you know, and you could go back in time to the point where you were founding the company and, you know, you met. Your younger self at a bar, you know, or coffee. You know what, what? What would you tell him?

(42:17) You know, what advice would you send him? You know, yo, that's easy. 

(42:20) Jackson Aw: Yeah. Liquidate everything. Pour into bitcoins. That's what I'll do. Like straight up. Straight up. Okay. No, because after 13 years, right? Yeah. There are way better ways to make money. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And, and, and investing all over into Bitcoin is one of those ways now, but my point is if I can amass a much larger capital from the beginning, yeah.

(42:39) It will avoid me a lot of pain that I went through. Right. I'll still create my jack, but I'll do it on a much better foot thing, 

(42:48) Jeremy Au: right. So it was a tough time back then. So you would advise your younger self to what? To like be ready for tough times or, 

(42:55) Jackson Aw: I think, again, I, I think I go back to the, to the human point, (43:00) right?

(43:00) Because for me it has always been true. And this is the truth, this is the truth since, we met, which is, you know, process and product will always. Be better. That's, we always have time to make it better, but with people, it's the most volatile, thing that you could have. Right. And I'll tell myself like, don't be too hot on, on, on emotionally part things.

(43:20) And especially not, too invested. Yeah, emotionally, I, I think a, when you start out, it's, it's usually quite common. It's a family, it's a small team, and you can't help but be invested in that way. Same with your, whether is it my production partners or IP partners, you know, it, it gets a little bit closer than, than, than it's much needed, I would say.

(43:42) Yeah. So emotionally I need to be stronger, you know, mentally. That's what I'll say. You'll prepare, be prepared for that. I'll 

(43:49) Jeremy Au: be prepared for that. How should people prepare for that, you know, mentally? 

(43:53) Jackson Aw: My, my own advice on that is that, it has to be very clear where the (44:00) decision that you make is stemming from.

(44:02) Right. And that it is not a representation of yourself as an individual. 

(44:07) Now it's very hard to convey that to the people that you're dealing with, but you must, at the very least, be clear about that yourself. Right. I'm not saying remove empathy entirely, of course, be empathetic, but if the situation, it's.

(44:23) A stone between a, the rock and a hard place then, then it is what it is, you know? And I find that I'll probably tell myself to get a partner from the GetGo too. 

(44:34) Yeah. So that a lot of that energy can can be circulating. 

(44:38) And then getting a partner is also. By itself a challenge. Of course. 

(44:42) Jeremy Au: Yeah. Yeah.

(44:43) You know, I think I like what you said about, you know, the decision. Where does it come from, right, from you, or is it about a company and. Does it mean I don't know you to become a, a Buddhist and meditate and zen? I'm just saying like, like how do you do that? Right. Because, you know, it is like, you (45:00) know, it's like, oh, this coffee is too hot.

(45:02) You know, I don't wanna drink right now. Right. This is zen is bad. I push back. Right. You know, you know, so, you know, so how do you actually kind of like, you know. 

(45:11) Jackson Aw: Yeah, for what works for other founders that I met, they like to go on silent retreats in the cabin somewhere, you know, and just literally like zen out and remove themselves from that.

(45:22) Yeah. I'm sure that helps for some people. I don't think I can take it like, so, it's not a thing that I do. But rather I, I focus a lot more on.

(45:32) After work, I was, you know, being more approachable. Right. Being myself after that. Ah, so that people can understand, who I am as a person. Yeah. But they know that before that, during day, there is no malicious attempt. Yeah. Yeah. I don't mean sarcasm, I don't mean anything. Right. It is just. Purely that if it's good, it's good.

(45:54) If it's not, then it's not. 

(45:56) Jeremy Au: Yeah. 

(45:56) Jackson Aw: So, so that is something that's more, I think, (46:00) culturally it has to develop in the company and you need that people team to, to. To preach that. Right. In that way. 

(46:06) Jeremy Au: Yeah, I think that's a very good point because I think one thing that's disappeared with like hybrid or remote work is that separation of the work and the personal self.

(46:16) Right. You know? 'cause you know, when you are remote online, it's all work. Right. You know, and then you don't have that. I dunno, what's the word? Outside work? Yeah, the outside work, past self. And then, so I'm just like working with, I dunno, Jeremy, the different, the bad guy. But, so it's like, oh, Jeremy's a cool dude who's a bit of a nerd.

(46:34) You know, like, 

(46:34) Jackson Aw: well, I mean, from, from very long ago. I think there was one thing that stuck with me, which is like, good, bad, good, right? Yeah. So you cushion like a, you know, small sandwich of stock, like if it's something good. The bad comes in and something good to round it up that often help, me a lot.

(46:51) Jeremy Au: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And same thing for getting to know people as well. On that note, thank you so much for sharing your point of view. I'd love to summarize the two big takeaways. First of all, thanks so much for I (47:00) think sharing about what's changed over the past few years for you, especially in terms of how you change as a leader, how you change as a person, in terms of how you lead and manage your teams.

(47:09) Secondly, thanks so much for sharing about, you know. The, how the collectible industry works. I mean, what are the emotional drivers? What are the personas? What are the trends are happening and how a business like yours works all the way from creation to you know, kind of like production to logistics, to getting true customs, you know, and to eventually selling.

(47:28) So that was a very fascinating insight. And lastly, thanks so much for sharing that thing about. Your own personal adding evolution? I would say from a founder to a leader. Right. And part of that delegation about that talent spotting, about being able to work with a room creators where, you know, their taste are more, you know, in line with today in the future versus your own and being able to let go and kind of like, let other beacons shine as well.

(47:54) So I dunno. Thank you so much for sharing. 

(47:55)Jackson Aw: Thanks, Jeremy! Thanks for having me.