“I spoke with my father, and he did mention that, "Hey, sales is something that you can definitely consider." At that point in time, my perception of sales wasn't the best. What I would associate sales with would be something like pushing people to do things. But when I started to explore more about B2B sales, I realized that it actually makes a meaningful impact on a large scale because whenever you introduce a new technology to a company, people's lives get better. They no longer have to do things manually. They get to the answers they want faster, and they can also enjoy additional time freed up, which they could spend with their family, friends, and engage in passion projects. So I thought, why not?” - Jeraldine Phneah, Content Creator & Account Director of one of the top AI SaaS companies
“When it comes to sexism or misogyny, I tend to face that a little bit more in the content creation side versus the technology sector. Yeah, I have some close relatives who are also in technology sales as females, and I've heard some of these stories, which are worse, I think, from my perspective. So I was just like, "Whoa, that's horrible." And I always scratch my head about that because, like you said, I think the companies are pretty fair and egalitarian internally. It's just that when you're doing sales, some of the male customers can act inappropriately. And so I think there's a big dimension where you just avoid all these high-risk situations. Make sure you meet in a public space, during the daytime, no alcohol—things like that to make sure the boundaries are more likely to be respected than not.” - Jeraldine Phneah, Content Creator & Account Director of one of the top AI SaaS companies
“I think to myself: would it have been better to start as a creator now, versus when I was, like, what, 20? My level of maturity and polishedness was so much different from what it is today. And evaluating all these factors, I feel that, of course, if I could enter public life at a stage where I'm a lot more mature, that might have been better for myself. But at the same time, we shouldn't dismiss young adults who start to write, like those who are eighteen, nineteen, twenty, twenty-one, and those who are just starting out in their careers.” - Jeraldine Phneah, Content Creator & Account Director of one of the top AI SaaS companies
Jeraldine Phneah, Content Creator & Account Director of one of the top AI SaaS companies, and Jeremy Au discussed:
1. Journalism to Enterprise Tech Sales: Jeraldine studied journalism and public policy but pivoted to enterprise tech sales in 2016 for financial stability, future-proofing, and work-life balance. Initially hesitant, she realized B2B SaaS focused on problem-solving and improving efficiency and saw how technology streamlined workflows and freed up time. Her role involved research, contract negotiations, and internal coordination. The job provided autonomy and senior client exposure but came with high pressure, performance scrutiny, and a drinking culture. Sales remains an unconventional career in Singapore, where government and engineering roles are more common. Establishing credibility was an added challenge, as leadership and client interactions were largely male-dominated.
2. Sales Gender Bias & Online Scrutiny: She encountered gender biases ranging from inappropriate client remarks to doubts about her competence in tech sales. Raised by a father who championed gender equality, she expected fewer barriers but found workplace realities different. While tech firms promoted inclusivity, biases emerged in external client interactions. Sales leadership remained male-dominated, making credibility harder to establish. Content creation brought harsher gendered criticism, with scrutiny often shifting from ideas to appearance, something male creators rarely faced. Adjustments like neutral-toned attire and refined messaging helped manage perceptions. Unlike in sales, where company policies offered some protection, content creation left her exposed to unfiltered public backlash.
3. Online Discourse Shifting Norms & Content Creation: A 2015 blog post about Lee Kuan Yew’s legacy sparked backlash due to timing and tone, shaping Jeraldine’s approach to content. She learned that framing and sensitivity mattered as much as the message. The digital landscape made past content permanent, increasing scrutiny on young creators. Singapore’s online discourse favors diplomacy over confrontation, unlike Western norms. She and Jeremy reflected on how younger generations now curate their digital presence more carefully and how content creation remains a powerful tool, but requires balancing authenticity with audience perception and societal expectations.
They also discussed Singapore’s rising cost of living, the shifting housing market, workplace well-being, the role of private universities in career progression, and how cultural norms influence leadership and communication styles.
(00:55) Jeremy Au: Hey, Jeraldine. Good to see you.
(00:57) Jeraldine Phneah: Great to see you, Jeremy. Thanks for having me here.
(00:59) Jeremy Au: Yeah, (01:00) so the last time we caught up, we did a recording several years ago. It was back in the era of audio only podcast. And now that we have this ability to redo this podcast, or at least catch up on what has happened since the past few years, but also do this in a video, in person format.
(01:13) What a great opportunity, right?
(01:15) Jeraldine Phneah: Yeah, definitely. I was really excited because I saw that you started doing videos and I was wondering How come my previous podcast did not have any video at all? And a lot of the body language plays a part when we communicate messages, right? So I really wanted to do this in person with you as well.
(01:30) Jeremy Au: So I think it's a great opportunity to chat. So for those who don't know you, could you share about yourself?
(01:36) Jeraldine Phneah: All right. So I'll reintroduce myself. My name is Jeraldine Phneah. I care about the challenges and aspirations of our generation. So I create content around how we can cope with the high cost of living, be rewarding careers and lead meaningful lives.
(01:49) In my day job, I work in the AI sector. I'm working at a company called AlphaSense. It's an AI market intelligence platform.
(01:56) Jeremy Au: Yeah, fantastic. And I think that obviously we've covered a lot of your prior (02:00) journey beforehand, but over the years I've been like, Oh, actually there's some interesting angles on that or questions I never got to ask you. I guess for me, the big question I have for this, How did you end up going towards like technology sales as a career?
(02:11) Jeraldine Phneah: Okay. So, when I went to school, basically I started something that is totally unrelated to technology sales and that is journalism and public policy. And when I graduated, I really sat down to have an honest conversation with myself. What am I optimizing for in life? So I wanted a job that would enable me to make a decent living while at the same time future proof me, because I saw that a lot of people were losing jobs as a result of technological change. And then my third criteria was that it would give me sufficient work life balance so that I could use this additional free time to contribute towards my family, to engage in volunteer work and support the causes that I care about as well. So these three things were really important to me. And I spoke with my father and he did mention that, "Hey, sales is (03:00) something that you can definitely consider." And at that point in time, my perception of sales wasn't the best. What I would associate sales with would be something that is like pushing people to do things, but when I started to explore more about B2B sales, I realized that it actually makes a meaningful impact on a large scale because whenever you introduce a new technology to a company, people's lives get better, right?
(03:23) They no longer have to do things manually. They get to the answers they want faster, and they can also enjoy additional time freed up, which they could spend with their family, friends, and engage in passion projects. So I thought, why not? And that's how I started off in B2B sales first, and entered my first SaaS job, I think it was in 2016.
(03:43) Jeremy Au: And it's interesting because for a lot of folks, they don't really know what the job is about, right? First of all, sales. It's not a very common Singaporean job, I think. People are like, "Ah, I want to be in the civil service. I want to be an engineer. I want to be in a biotech," but I think sales is like a (04:00) fuzzy career, that's one. And then technology sales is a subset of subset, right? Yes. So could you explain like what a day in the life of technology sales looks like?
(04:09) Jeraldine Phneah: For me it involves a lot of meetings, but a lot of preparation as well So trying to think about how I can negotiate a better contract or maybe perhaps how I can study a company and the person well before I meet them for the first time so that I can position myself as someone sincere and is interested to work with them and support them as well.
(04:28) Along the way, there's also a lot of other work that has to be done internally, such as managing internal stakeholders, helping the more junior staff, managing the other supporting functions, such as your solution engineers, product specialists, and of course, marketing as well. So it's really a job that requires a lot of talking both internally and externally.
(04:47) Jeremy Au: What's the best part of the job from your perspective?
(04:49) Jeraldine Phneah: Autonomy.
(04:50) Jeremy Au: Yeah, I guess you're right. All the sales folks are all very like hunters, individual.
(04:56) Jeraldine Phneah: Yeah, I think autonomy is something that I really enjoy because it really frees (05:00) up my bandwidth to control my schedule, to be able to dabble in the things that I enjoy outside work such as for example, content creation, and I've been volunteering for the past 10 years and more as well, dabbling in social causes that I enjoy also.
(05:15) So all this additional bandwidth, as part of my day job, has been really important for me. Additionally, I also enjoy being able to have deep, meaningful conversations as part of my role. So in B2B, you get to speak with a lot of decision makers, people who are high in leadership. And sometimes, I find them really inspiring.
(05:36) For example, there was a period of time where I was working quite a bit with startup founders. I really find them so brave and I'm glad that you are covering that in your BRAVE podcast. And of course, speaking to those who have leaders in, for example, governments and all that, who have a vision of how they want things to look like and think about how they can innovate better and use things like AI to support them in their initiatives.
(05:59) Jeremy Au: So what is (06:00) the part that is not so fun about sales from your perspective? Yeah.
(06:03) Jeraldine Phneah: Definitely it's the high pressure. I think tech sales is a industry that is quite commonly associated with alcohol, because many of them see that as one of the ways that they can deal with stress.
(06:15) And of course the long hours on certain days, and just the pressure of having to perform because the results of what you put in is so visible on a monthly and quarterly basis. That's really one of the challenges of this job. I feel that it's important, if anyone wants to enter this sector, to really be able to manage your energy and time well.
(06:34) For example, keeping up a good sleep routine, exercise routine, is absolutely critical, and also of course managing your energy well, because the moment, that core, which is so fundamental to your performance falters. Yes, you can still perform well, but is it on a sustainable basis? Or are you using your health to pay for future performance and revenue, right?
(06:55) Jeremy Au: Yeah. Makes a lot of sense. And I think what's interesting is that, I've met a lot of (07:00) enterprise technology sales reps and they're mostly dudes. And we talked about this in the past as well. So I'm just curious, was that a blocker because I think I'm imagining a lot of women out there might be interested in the career, but then they're also , "Oh, is it very like male-dominated and so forth."
(07:13) Jeraldine Phneah: For me, I was really lucky when I was young. because my father is actually a really great role model. He doesn't tell me that there are things that I cannot do because I'm a woman. And in fact, I would say that at home, he plays an equal part when it comes to household chores, which is very rare for someone of that generation. So I find that to be something admirable. And I'm very thankful to have grown up with that because it taught me that as a woman, there shouldn't be limits or constraints that I place on myself because of my gender. Having said that, when I entered the actual working world, I found that, I also face similar challenges as many other women face. For example, there could be situations whereby the male (08:00) customer messaged me like, "Hi, dear," kind of thing in like WhatsApp messages. And there was once. I was having a meeting and one of the Chief Information Officers actually touched my hand, like boldly. And I was like, whoa, like maneuver out of there.
(08:15) Yeah. So dealing with things like this, thankfully it hasn't happened to me too much, but I know that it's a reality for many other women in the industry as well. And of course, I feel that at least for technology sector is still quite progressive when it comes to sexism or misogyny. I tend to face that a little bit more in the content creation side versus the technology sector.
(08:38) Jeremy Au: Yeah. I have some close relatives, so also the technology sales as a female and I've heard some of these stories, which is worse. I think from my perspective, I was just like, "Whoa, like that's horrible."
(08:50) And I always scratch my head about that because like you said, the companies are pretty fair and egalitarian internally. It's just that when you're doing sales, some of the male customers can be (09:00) acting inappropriately. And so I think there's a big dimension where you just avoid all these like high risk situations, make sure you meet in a public space, daytime, no alcohol, all those things to like make sure that the boundaries are more likely to be respected than not, and even though, there's still weird moments that happen.
(09:15) Jeraldine Phneah: Yeah.
(09:16) Jeremy Au: And so you mentioned that, on content creation side, that's also your other half of your life. And in fact, we started knowing each other because we're both kind of content creators at around the same time as well. But I'm just curious, like, how did you start doing content creation and your perspective on that? Yeah.
(09:30) Jeraldine Phneah: I started content creation. when I was in university. And back then I started to write about social economic issues that I was noticing. For example, about our education system, about the elderly poor. And the reason why I started to write online was because I didn't have much friends who were interested in this type of topics or who were willing to discuss them in great detail. I guess back then, the culture was still a lot more (10:00) conservative against making criticisms about policies and all, although I'm really glad that things have evolved over the years because that actually encourages active citizenry. So I started to write about current affairs and gradually gotten traction. It got traction and I felt that, Oh that's great. I'm actually adding value to society through sharing my ideas and contributing to public discourse. Along the way, when I started to work, I realized that, "Hey, these policies are going to take some time to change." But the core challenges faced by our generation is the same.
(10:32) Basically, moving from the stage of school to work is really a huge step. They have to use this time to really figure out things like how CPF works, find a good job, maneuver and navigate their way through the working world while at the same time pursuing things that we're passionate about, for example, finding a partner, building up hobbies. So there's a lot of changes and a lot to take for a young person.
(10:57) Back then, for me it was already something that was challenging, (11:00) right? So if I think about the HDB ratio price index from 2009 to 2014, it actually went up by over 34%, if I remember that correctly. And now it's a lot worse for the younger generation. If you think about 2020, there were, I think less than a hundred million dollar HDB flats. But right now, at 2024, I think it's over 1000 already. So that's really a huge challenge that young people have to deal with. So I thought, okay, instead of waiting for policies to adjust to help citizens deal with the high cost of living, the reality is that for our generation, we graduate at a time that is vastly different from that of the previous one.
(11:41) So if I think about my batch, those who graduated maybe 2014, 2015, we will face back then with really high HDB resale prices. So if I think about the statistics if you look at the years of 2009 to 2014, the prices of HDB resale (12:00) index actually went up, I think by about more than 30%. And for the current generation, it's definitely a lot worse because if you look at the number of million dollar HDB flats, it's increased drastically from 2020 to over a thousand in 2024.
(12:15) So all these challenges it's a lot for a young person to take, dealing with the high cost of living. But on top of that, they also have to cope with the challenges when it comes to their career, figuring out what path to take, How to navigate the corporate world, how to settle into a routine of waking up early and the Monday to Friday grind. And on top of that, balancing other priorities like finding love, taking care of their elderly parents. And it's really a challenging time for a young adult, in the ages of maybe 20 to 30, and especially at this transition from school to the working world. So I thought that rather than wait for policies to change, why not I also start to share more actionable advice that they can take today.
(12:54) For example, tips on how to budget better, how to invest, and also how to think (13:00) about insurance, or even topics around how to build one's career capital, networking, job applications and all. I felt that these were very important topics to discuss and put out there because that would help them to have actionable things that they could take on an immediate basis to help them with their lives while complimenting that with conversations about policies that could change over time and also make a broader impact.
(13:22) Jeremy Au: And you mentioned that you face more issues as a female content creator than you have had as a female enterprise sales rep. So could you share a little bit more about that from your perspective?
(13:32) Jeraldine Phneah: When I'm doing software sales, I feel that it's a protected environment because many of the technology companies, they, at least the ones I've worked for, they tend to be a lot more inclusive, not just of different genders, but of different ethnic backgrounds and of different backgrounds, basically.
(13:51) So that's a protected environment that I'm in, but then when I'm on the internet, it's a, we're really exposed to the whole society. (14:00) And what I've found is that actually people do not really like it when a young woman is very confident stepping out there to share her viewpoints in a way that is maybe perhaps sometimes strongly worded and all. And I felt that was, I got some haters as a result of being in that profile. Whereas I felt that if I was a guy doing it, the reception will not, the same response will not be there.
(14:23) Jeremy Au: Yeah. I think I definitely seen sometimes like the YouTube comments for various creators it can be quite personal against female. I think it's always fair to have criticism, right? If somebody talks about economics, I would be happily like, I disagree with this, or this assessment. But I think for some reason, like against female content creators, they become very personal about looks. And then he was very like derogatory terms as well, which is, I find, I'm just like, you can make your point.
(14:48) Jeraldine Phneah: Yeah.
(14:48) Jeremy Au: I think it's more fair to call somebody an idiot than use a gendered term, right? Cause you're like, okay, you're an idiot. Okay, fine. But it's just weird to have that color to the hate. How do you deal with that?
(14:58) Jeraldine Phneah: I guess for me, I'm (15:00) very thankful at that point I did not give up. If not, I wouldn't be where I am today. After all, content creation has opened so many doors for me when it comes to getting into competitive firms, being invited to speak at events, being featured on the media in a positive way. So these are the doors that content creation has opened for me.
(15:18) But at the same time, I also acknowledged that there are constraints in this real world that I probably have to work with. So I began to make adjustments to myself. There are a couple of things, the physical and also the emotional. Physically, I maybe decided to dress in a way that is much more, I wouldn't say masculine, but somewhat, aligned to that, right?
(15:39) So darker colors, long pants, long sleeve shirt. And to speak in a way that my voice is a lot lower as compared to before. And this was some adjustments that I made that I found really positive results. If I think about back then, being someone whose blog was light pink and light yellow, pastel colors, (16:00) versus now where my signature colors are a lot darker. And also the way I carry myself is a lot more mature. I could be saying the same points, right? I could be saying the same thing. Like for example, employers should not ask for O level or A level results and get a very different reception. The younger me will be called a strawberry generation, bimbo for saying that.
(16:20) And then now when I say that as a much more established person of who I am today. The reception is supportive. Yeah, they shouldn't ask for O level and A level results. I mean what has that got to do with my ability to perform at work? So yup, that's the key difference that I've noticed.
(16:35) Jeremy Au: Yeah, I think a lot for messaging. It's also not just about what you say, but also how you say it, and how you say it is like you said, body language, dress, first impressions, because humans such a visual animals, at the end of day. From your perspective, of course, I think what's interesting is that we're used with content creators, I think most people think of content creators as I don't know, eating ghost peppers or travel, vlogging, like that's how people think about creators. And for you, you've always been writing about (17:00) socioeconomic issues as well, ever since I've known you for so many years. Why that topic? Last night I was watching some videos about hiking. And it was not very personal, people are like, oh, I disagree about your gear, load out. You should be this, not that. Or, that's a bit unhealthy, obviously there's a bit of debate in YouTube and everything. But I think when it comes to social economic issues, like it's so loaded, right? It gets very personal, it gets very emotional, very fast. So I'm just curious, why do you think that happens from your perspective?
(17:25) Jeraldine Phneah: If you think about it, the reason why socioeconomic issues, or even topics that I write about today, such as career, finance, health, are a lot more sensitive compared to topics like, what dress to wear, which makeup brand is good, or which hiking trail to take, it's because it's something that touch upon our daily lives. And we have to navigate such topics when we speak carefully. I feel that at least in the past few years, I've been able to strike a really good balance when I write, but when I started off, it definitely wasn't that way.
(17:58) Jeremy Au: And how do (18:00) you have to write better for this kind of nuance? Because if I was writing about, I don't know, again, hiking, which I'd have to do, I can say something like, "I love this hiking pole. It is the best hiking pole, superior to every hiking pole that's out there." I feel like that's how I would say it. I guess you can't talk about that, about socioeconomics,
(18:16) Jeraldine Phneah: Yeah, you have to approach that in a more sensitive way. And let me share with you a story on how I actually learned this in a very hard way. So back in 2015, I actually wrote a post about Lee Kuan Yew's legacy, and, of course, sharing how I felt that he did make a huge contribution. But at the same time, we should also, of course, recognize this is a team effort. And there are many other great leaders, Lim Kim San, Goh Keng Swee, and external advisors such as Albert Winsemius, who actually played a very critical role in our nation building as well.
(18:51) Jeremy Au: Yeah, sounds fair.
(18:52) Jeraldine Phneah: So of course, neglect there might be a missed opportunity. Very unfortunately for me, after two days (19:00) that I wrote the article, he passed on.
(19:02) Jeremy Au: No, yeah.
(19:02) Jeraldine Phneah: Yeah. And at the same time, I wasn't at a stage of life where I was the most sensitive or compassionate. So the title of the post wasn't worded in a sensitive way. So naturally, people were very frustrated and unhappy with me because it was really a tough period for many who actually looked up to him as well.
(19:22) At 23 years old, to deal with online backlash is definitely something that is not easy at all, especially when a lot of the attacks were very personal, about the way I looked and not really about the content that I was putting out there. However, I felt that it's very important to be accountable and to take this as a learning lesson. So I did issue a clarification. And of course, what I also did was to not take down my social media profiles at all, but just stay online, to show that, "Hey, okay, since I said these things, I'm willing to bear the consequences." If anyone is hurt by this and watching this podcast today, I just want to give my apology again for what has (20:00) happened. And definitely this is something that has taught me a lot about content creation, because after that, I started to think about " Hey, your points can be good or even fair," like what you explained just now, but perhaps the way you express yourself could be done better. So I changed the title of the post.
(20:18) And then, I changed it to a middle ground perspective on Lee Kuan Yew. And then, I also took some time to think about how can I express my points better. And eventually I figured out that, hey, when we talk about any topic, be it topics about grieving our national leader, or maybe things that are related to things like minimum wage, health policies, or building rewarding careers, it's because it's so personal to everyone, it has to be done in a balanced way.
(20:47) So this means also acknowledging both sides of the point. And then while using logical arguments to back your own, which is what I've been doing, but I think that things like sometimes the packaging of the message, the title, and all that could (21:00) be done a lot better as well. I also feel increasingly that it's much more important to be in videos, like what I mentioned to you, because videos is when you can see body language, tone, versus just text where people tend to interpret it based on the lens of the emotions that they are going through at that point in time. And yeah, that's how I actually eventually learned to navigate these issues and really grow up and mature from all these experiences and mistakes that I've made.
(21:26) Jeremy Au: Yeah. I think it's very true that there's a difference between being a commentator somebody who's maximizing engagement in the algorithm.
(21:35) Jeraldine Phneah: Yeah.
(21:35) Jeremy Au: And then, providing an analysis of the situation. And I think that when it's anonymous comment, your expectations for them are pretty low in terms of you expect them to be fantastic. You expect them to be analytical. You expect them to be very hateful, but I think the standards are not, like you don't have high expectations for you to comment. In fact, in some ways, sometimes the ruder they are, the funnier they are, the more engagement to get. And I think it goes to the second (22:00) part, which is, I think there's a little bit of rewards, right? For the kind of like engagement farming, whereas if you have a controversial statement, people are more likely to reshare it and that's what the algorithm rewards. But then now you have this perspective where you're trying to that middle ground perspective, which is difficult.
(22:14) Jeraldine Phneah: And I think it's about what you're optimizing for, right? Who I am as a person, I'm not optimizing for clicks, shares, likes, or strong emotions. What I'm optimizing for is how can I, through the work that I do, add value to others. And if that's my objective, then therefore, using a much more balanced approach, even if it results in less clicks and views and hype, it's going to be my way forward because it creates the outcomes that I want.
(22:41) I'm not chasing popularity or a lot of likes, shares. What I'm looking for is really, how can I convey a message in a way that is, you know, adding value to the other person, be it a new perspective, even if they disagree with me, or maybe something uplifting at a point whereby they need it. (23:00) For example, I do have one post that talks about the disadvantages that private university students face. And it was also widely shared, but in a way that was a positive one, like many students felt that they were encouraged by the post that it is not the end for them if they ended up in a private university.
(23:18) And in that post, I also authentically shared my perspective, like maybe how I felt before, and also how my views about private university students have evolved over time. What are some of the success stories I've seen? And how they can actually still be successful regardless of the starting point that they have.
(23:35) Jeremy Au: Yeah. I think one aspect that's interesting is, are you within certain bounds of behavior, right? In terms of language and so forth. Because I feel like the Singapore style of online commentary is very different from the American style.
(23:49) Jeraldine Phneah: Oh, tell me more.
(23:50) Jeremy Au: Because American style is very much, "You're the worst. You're terrible," and then, seems to be okay, right?
(23:56) Versus that in Singapore, it feels like the bounds of what's (24:00) considered acceptable versus not acceptable in terms of discourse is much more narrow compared to the US yeah.
(24:05) Jeraldine Phneah: It's a different society after all. They prefer certain type of personalities, which is reflected in the types of leaders that they elect. And similarly for us, Singaporeans view leadership in a much more different way. We're also different in terms of maybe how women are perceived or the expectations of what women should be like, and we are different in terms of maybe what good communication is as well. We can't forget that Singapore is also new to things like disagreements and all because we weren't really encouraged as children to think critically or have robust debates about policies at home.
(24:41) So when there's internet and everyone gets online, sometimes they might not know the best way to convey their points and how to do it in a sensitive way and it's a learning journey for all of us, myself included, as someone who started young at a stage of life where it's a lot more immature, a lot less compassionate and how you know taking all these experiences and growing (25:00) from there.
(25:00) Jeremy Au: I think people today are a lot more understanding that it takes time to evolve as a content creator I remember like maybe 10 years ago, you know The joke was that in order to become the US president, you need to be somebody who didn't have the internet and you live under a cave because basically everybody at that time, I think Facebook had pictures of themselves like drinking, partying. And then it was considered disqualifying, I think for the, I'll say 10 years ago, I would say to have that kind of internet history, just because people growing up as teenagers on Facebook and all this other stuff, right? Versus I think today it feels like every politician has an Instagram and Facebook and then they're all like, taking photographs. I think there's a lot more understanding of the different, what's the word, evolution of people over time, right? And people can change over time as a content creator over the years.
(25:53) Jeraldine Phneah: Yeah, definitely. I think Jeremy, have you ever had this experience where you read your posts or messages from 10 years ago and you feel this sense of (26:00) cringe?
(26:00) Jeremy Au: It's a good question because I didn't write that much, thankfully. I reshare a lot of posts and a lot of comments.
(26:07) Jeraldine Phneah: Private messages that I DM or like,
(26:09) Jeremy Au: Messages, no, not private messages. I don't feel so bad because of the private messages. It's just talking to your friend or girlfriend or family. I think people understand, I think, to some extent. I mean I was very focused on career and stuff. So maybe I think if somebody was to look at my private messages, I'll look like a workaholic, where I was like, Oh, better to focus on work than on relationships.
(26:30) Jeraldine Phneah: Yeah. But now you're different, right? I see you as a family man, two kids.
(26:33) Jeremy Au: Yeah, Yeah. I don't cringe about it. I just laugh about it. So I think that's how I try to think about it.
(26:38) Jeraldine Phneah: For myself, for many people, when we think back about our university days, our early career days, the mistakes we made, how immature we were back then, the kind of like things we said, realize that, hey, who's that?
(26:50) It's not who I am today, right? It's a drastically different person. Yeah. So Everyone goes through that growth journey. 10 years ago, you are very different from who you are today. You're different from (27:00) yourself when you first, when you were in Berkeley, right? Versus now. Like it's a different version of who you are. And even your priorities in life have all changed. So that's the beauty about human nature. And we should look at growth, versus expecting someone to be born perfect, no fun moments or no moments of mistakes or vulnerabilities because that wouldn't be realistic at all.
(27:19) Jeremy Au: No, it's funny because you reminded me that I think the big difference was that I think that in junior college, I was, like pretty introverted. I was dealing with my own like personal emotional issues. And then I was in army, which had no internet. Then by the time I went to university, all this content stuff, I was already a bit older because of the army, right? So I guess I had a benefit of being offline when I was most likely to be writing any embarrassing stuff. But I think it's interesting because I think what you're making me remind me is like the massive evolution of content creation, but also like digital lifestyle, right?
(27:56) Because back in secondary school, I was using a Nokia phone, which (28:00) had only had messages. And now all messages have been destroyed because nobody backed up the SMSs. And then there was MSN Messenger, which again, nobody really saved, it wasn't public. But now, people are into like Instagram, they take photos, video, there's a podcast now. So I feel like there's a massive evolution over the past 15 years actually.
(28:20) Jeraldine Phneah: Yeah, yeah. The reality for people today, Gen Z's, myself, younger millennials, is that a lot of our missteps, moments of immaturity embarrassing things we said are going to be preserved on an online platform forever.
(28:33) Jeremy Au (2): Yeah, because we didn't know at that time when we were younger, you're right. As teenagers, it was understood like you can write whatever you want because your parents are not there and nobody else is there. It's just you and your other teenagers. Yes. So to us, it was an open internet for fellow friends, blogspot, blog, and only other teenagers were there. And we didn't realize that it would also include our parents, our grandparents, or our kids. And also it will be (29:00) preserved for all eternity. And it'd be scripted by AI. So we would like, no, I was just like, Oh, I don't like this bubble tea. This cyber cafe is the best. It's just a totally different time and age.
(29:13) Jeraldine Phneah: Yeah. Correct. So sometimes I think to myself, would it have been better to start as a creator now versus when I was like, what, 20, when my level of maturity, level of polishedness was so much different from what it is today evaluating all these factors, I feel that, of course, if I could, enter public life at a stage where I'm a lot more mature that might have been better for myself, but at the same time, we shouldn't dismiss young adults who start to write, like those who are 18, 19, 20, 21 and those who are just starting out in their careers. We shouldn't dismiss them from contributing to public discourse just because the way they express themselves is a lot less polished, sometimes insensitive, or maybe their perspectives may not be as mature yet.
(29:58) Because they deserve the (30:00) same rights to contribute, to share their ideas, and to shape public discourse as we do.
(30:06) Jeremy Au: Yeah. And I think that's true, right? Because I think people who are growing up as Gen Z or even, I think they have a natural understanding that anything they want to keep private, they better do it on a private messaging apps. And so there's a very curated online self, right? With Instagram, there's a lot of control around that. Any advice you have for people who feel like they want to also write about socioeconomic issues or personal finance, have any advice you would give them?
(30:29) Jeraldine Phneah: I encourage everyone who feels that they have something meaningful to say to not hold it inside themselves and to put their ideas and thoughts out there because content creation can be something really powerful. There are people who have made career switches, who have gotten salary raises as a result of maybe a post that I put up. And that's something that I feel is deeply meaningful. for me as a creator. So for a young person out there, you will never know that, hey, maybe something you put out there could really be (31:00) something inspiring and comforting to someone else when they need it the most, right? So that's really something that I feel that should not hold, they should not hold themselves back and they should put themselves forward. However, at the same time, you also have to recognize that when you are young, you may not be as polished, as mature, as balanced, but as a woman, you may be judged beyond the content that you put out there into maybe your appearance, and some guys out there who tend to be more insecure, who would find that a threat and try to take you down as well. So be generous with your thoughts and feelings, but at the same time recognize that there are these realities that exist outside there and learn to convey your points in a way that is balanced, compassionate, inclusive, such that you can make the message that you put out there a lot more palatable. That would be my advice.
(31:55) Jeremy Au: Yeah. I guess my last question I have for you here would be (32:00) like, could you share about a time that you personally have been brave?
(32:02) Jeraldine Phneah: Share about a time where I personally have been brave? I did cover that earlier. So that was the point that I brought up about the backlash that I got for the Lee Kuan Yew article and how I kept my social media profile on and also issued a clarification and just dealt with it and use that as a turning point to maybe improve myself because I don't think that without that experience. I wouldn't be who I am today because that really forced me to sit down to think about how I want to improve. How can I, you know instead of hurting other people, really convey my points in a way that is meaningful, mature How do I express myself in a way that is compassionate, yet truthful.
(32:48) Jeremy Au: Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing, Jeraldine. I think the three big takeaways I got from you is first of all, thanks so much for sharing about how you got into kind of an enterprise tech sales and what's it like in terms of the day in the life, but also what's it like to (33:00) be a woman who's like in that space.
(33:01) Secondly, thanks for sharing about your journey as a content creator. I thought it was quite interesting to hear about like your own motivations for why you started it, but also the evolution of it and some of the turning points that you had. And lastly, thanks so much for sharing about, I think some of the societal trends that we see around what's acceptable in terms of online communication, discourse, and I think that's a lot for us to reflect on.
(33:22) So thank you so much, Jeraldine, for sharing your experience.
(33:24) Jeraldine Phneah: Thank you so much, Jeremy, for having me here again.