In this episode, Li Ling Yung, the first Southeast Asian woman to swim the English Channel, and Jeremy Au discussed Li Ling’s marathon swimming journey:

1. Li Ling's Childhood and Athletic Journey: Li Ling recalled securing bronze and silver as a competitive swimmer in her childhood until moving on to other athletic activities where she enjoyed the balance between swimming, other sports, playing with friends, and valuing fun over rigorous training. She moved to London at 19 for studies and career and rekindled her interest in sports in her mid-twenties due to the endurance sports culture in finance. She talked about how she started open-water swimming and found joy in individual sports over the demanding triathlon training.

She joined a community of swimmers when she moved to Hong Kong, where they swim year-round even in winter when temperatures drop significantly.

2. Swimming the English Channel: Li Ling described the experience of swimming in the English Channel, highlighting the mental and physical challenges she faced. She emphasized the mental strength needed, particularly towards the end of the swim where she had to overcome strong currents and doubts about completing the swim. She focused on short-term goals, like reaching the next feed every half an hour, rather than the total time spent swimming, which helped her manage the hours in the water. Supported by her coach and motivated by friends and her husband, she persevered through the challenges and pushed her limits, eventually reaching Cap Gris-Nez.

3. Life Uncertainties: Li Ling and her husband chose to relocate to Hong Kong to be closer to family and friends. She shared that even though she was satisfied with the decision, the transition was challenging due to the open-ended nature of the move which required her to leave her job without having another lined up. She shared her involvement as a volunteer coach at Splash Foundation and raised SGD 50,000 through her English Channel swim. The foundation focuses on teaching swimming to underserved communities in Singapore and Hong Kong, including migrant workers and children with special needs.

They also discussed the importance of mental strength in survival scenarios, athletes’ intense training routines, the role of community and support in achieving challenging objectives, and marathon swimming dynamics.

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(02:08)

Jeremy Au:

Hey Li Ling, really excited to have you on the show. I can't believe that I was just standing next to you at the Italian ambassador's house for that dinner party. Very fancy. And it turns out that you are the first Southeast Asian woman ever to have swam across the English Channel. swam 34 kilometers in under 13 hours, which is very long, very far, and a long time. So I'm excited to having you on the show.

(02:32)

Jeremy Au:

Could you introduce yourself real quick?

(02:34) Li Ling Yung:

Yeah, thanks very much, Jeremy, for having me. So it's a real honor and privilege to be on your podcast as well. Yeah, so my name is Li Ling. I'm originally from Singapore, but I've spent the last 20 years or so living between London and Hong Kong. And I am the first Singaporean and Southeast Asian woman to swim the English Channel solo last year. I'm also the only Singaporean so far to have swum around Hong Kong Island, which is a 44-kilometer swim, and also the 48-kilometer swim called 20 Bridges, which is around Manhattan Island. So yeah, and I'm very much involved in swimming-related charity work in my time in Hong Kong, and I have a separate day job in the finance industry as well.

So I'm a volunteer coach with Splash Foundation. I'm also a Singapore director on the board as well for Splash. For my swim for across the English channel last year, I actually raised 50,000 Singapore dollars to facilitate Splash's expansion from Hong Kong into Singapore to bring our program over.

So Splash Foundation is a it's a organization that aims to provide free, learn to swim lessons for people from underserved communities. Primarily our "splashers" as we call them, they're from the migrant domestic workers, the helpers, as well as kids with special education needs, as well as kids and their parents from low income communities as well. In Singapore, since September last year, which was my swim, we've already taught 80 helpers how to swim and then we have another 80 enrolled for the term coming up this month. So the idea of Splash is that we want to teach people how to swim and to be water safe, but then the focus is on also well being because it brings a lot of physical, mental and social impacts as well. We see a lot of our Splashers now forming communities on their own, swim groups on their own. They do long swims, two-kilometer, three-kilometer sea swims, and it's a great way for them to. build a community amongst themselves and feel that they're also part of our wider open water swimming community here in Hong Kong.

(04:21)

Jeremy Au:

So what were you like as a kid? Were you really big into swimming? What was it like growing up in Singapore?

(04:26) Li Ling Yung:

I mean, I was a very active kid. I started swimming when I was very young, probably about four or five. I've never remembered the first time of what it was like to actually go in the water. I swam until I was nine or 10 years old, but then, I think this was in the competitive swimming scene in Singapore. I didn't get very far, but I think at that age, the training was something that was pretty tough for me. As a kid, I was very active. I was more of a jack of all trades. I was doing all sorts of sports. I was just doing gymnastics, badminton, table tennis, swimming, and then on top of that, at recess, I'll be playing playing catch with my friends in school.

So I was always running around doing something. But you know, one thing that I guess always stayed in my mind is that I always felt like a jack of all trades. I was never an elite athlete in any sport at all. And, I think with this English channel swim, for me, it was something that I heard about when I was a kid and it was always like, wow, I can't believe people do that. And I met, many friends in London through my swim club who had actually done the English channel. And then, when you see people around you actually doing it, it starts to become more of a possible, feasible goal. And that's how all of this started.

(05:24)

Jeremy Au:

So why did you stop swimming at 10 years old? I'm kind of curious. So you said you had lots of energy exercising, but why did you stop?

(05:30) Li Ling Yung:

I think for me, I remember at the time, I was training three to four times a week, but I realized that there was a fellow swimmer of mine, same age, a girl who was winning all the gold medals. Myself and my friend, we were winning the bronzes and the silvers. And then I found out that she was actually training every day. I think at that age, I knew that what it took to get ahead at the age of nine. I just have to admit, like, I wasn't mature enough or I didn't have that kind of mental strength to say, I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna commit.

(05:55) Jeremy Au:

Yeah. I think it's quite rare for folks to be swimming so early in their life. Like obviously there are trade offs. I mean, if you're swimming every day, I can imagine you're not studying as much. I don't know how much practice it is. Could you share a little bit about those childhood practice routines?

(06:08) Li Ling Yung:

Yeah, sure. To be honest, I don't remember too much about them, but our school days were not too long, right? So this was in lower primary. half day of school and then the training sessions were maybe, like two and a half hours each time. So after school ,two or three times a week and then like a stroke check session on the weekends. That was about an hour. It was all doable. You could fit it in. But I think at the time I was just more interested in what was fun.

(06:29) Jeremy Au:

What was fun for you then?

(06:30) Li Ling Yung:

Oh, what was fun for me? I mean, I enjoyed doing the swim sessions as they were, the three or four times a week. I enjoyed trying other sports. I played badminton then at the time as well, playing catching with my friends at recess. All of that was fun, but this is many years ago, like 30 years ago.

(06:44) Jeremy Au:

So what happened then? So Did you just swim between 11 all the way to 35, were you swimming or not, because I saw your resume, you're working all the way at finance in London and Hong Kong. So I'm kind of curious.

(06:59)

Li Ling Yung:

Yeah, it's a good question. I was doing sports, but I didn't really swim from the age of nine or ten. I was going casually maybe once or twice a week on my own, but I was never training with the squad, not seriously. And like life takes over, through the teenage years. I went to London when I was 19. I studied in London and then graduated, started work in finance in London. And I think I started again maybe in my mid twenties because I got into triathlons at the time. So I used to run as well in school. I was on the reserve team in cross country for about a year. And then in London, and I think in finance industries in other places, a lot of people are into endurance sports. I think at one point triathlon was called the new golf, and, uh, so, it became something that, you know, and like, the kind of personalities that you get in finance it's quite common for people to to look into these sports. And so I started doing that and given my background, I had an edge in the swimming component.

And I was doing that probably from about 12 years ago, early 2010s, I started doing triathlons and I really enjoyed it. That was my foray back into swimming, especially open water swimming. And then from there, I kind of gravitated towards doing the single sports because I wanted to focus on them a little bit more because with triathlon, you have to split your focus between three sports. It's very demanding in terms of the time. And I realized that I actually enjoyed doing the sports individually. So, actually swimming was the last one that I came back to because I spent a lot of time cycling. In cycling you see amazing scenery throughout Europe. We did bike trips with our backpacks just throughout Europe. Running, I really enjoyed, but I was getting injured at that point in my early thirties. And so I went back to swimming. I went back to swimming and I discovered open water swimming and a swimming club and a group of friends who were more into the long distance open water swimming.

(08:37) Jeremy Au:

So I totally get the fact about childhood hobby. Lots of kids learn how to swim and then everybody joins the professional world and picks up a hobby, pickleball, ultimate, I don't know, walking around for your next drink at a pub. And then suddenly you're like, okay, I want to do this quite seriously. I want to swim the English channel. So how does it even come about? Do you wake up in the morning and you're like, oh, this is a good idea. Do you, was it an Instagram ad? How does that work?

(09:03) Li Ling Yung:

Yeah, that's a good question, actually. And it brings to mind something that I came across in my early graduate years. I think it was one of these inspirational quotes, but actually it stuck with me. They're saying that you get inspired by different levels of people. First you see the world champs, right? The record holders. You see, oh, there's something that they can do. And then you start seeing, say, your national athletes. Oh, that's great. That's something that they can do. And then it goes to a level where you start seeing your peers doing it. And because the English channel is something I heard about since I was a kid, and when I joined my swimming club in London called Red Top, around me suddenly were these people who had actually swum the English Channel solo. And the coaches were very encouraging. They're also very good at what they do, which is, coaching people to actually do these long challenges. And then it all starts with the relay. So I did a relay across the English Channel with two other friends and that went really well. And once you've done that. Then, someone says like, Oh, have you thought about a solo swim? And then you start thinking, Oh, people actually think that it's possible for me to do the swim. And then that starts you thinking. So, that's how it started. But in in reality, it took I would say like, probably more than five years for me to get to the point where I actually did swim it. Took a couple of years of sitting on it starting to swim what we call skins, which is without a wetsuit. Because for marathon swimming, it's usually done with just a swimsuit, not wetsuit. Getting used to the cold temperatures. and then building up the endurance and actually, getting the experience that you need, right?

So there's a lot of things that you need to be able to do. So even things like your nutrition, how do you feed from the boat? How do you know whether your stomach will not be upset when you do a long swim? Are you comfortable swimming in the dark? It's all these things that, that are also very important for marathon swimming.

(10:34) Jeremy Au:

I'm sure we're going to go into what is it like to do the swim itself. I want to kind of go double click into the part about seeing people around you having done it. And then it was like in the back of your head that you could potentially do it. I think that's a really fair point, right? I mean, for myself. I never thought I could do a Harvard MBA, and then I went to, was an intern at Bain Company as a management consultant, and then people coming back from business school, and I was like, Oh, if they were in this company and they go there and they can come back from it, that's interesting, right? And I could potentially do it.

I'm just kind of curious, and then I love that story about world champions, national, then your peers. So what was it like hanging out with them? Did you feel intimidated? Because, they're also talking to you about you potentially doing a solo. What was your relationship with them? Were they like coaches? Were they friends? Were they acquaintances? How did you have that relationship with them?

(11:18) Li Ling Yung:

Yes, so they were mostly my club mates in London in the swimming club. And some of them are good friends as well. And my coaches were there as well. So it's good to know when you're swimming next to somebody in the lane and maybe they're a little bit quicker than you, but you, know, you're like, well, I could get there, I could get there. And then they start asking you, Oh, so have you thought about a solo? And then, you get a confidence boost when you think, Oh, somebody who's done it. And some of these friends have done it and you get a confidence boost because you think, Oh, maybe people think that I could do it, it suddenly becomes, you know, a lot of people say, yeah, internally, you should have this internal self confidence, but when people casually start thinking like, Oh, maybe you can do it. That also really helps your confidence, and you're also, because it's a big commitment, it helps you to cement and have that focus and that commitment to actually go and try it.

(11:59) Jeremy Au:

Yeah. And what's interesting is that you said that you sat on it for a while. So you joined, so I'm kind of curious because you said you joined a relay and then you sat on it again. How did you get there? Because it must be quite scary, to be like, okay, I'm going to do this swim. That's going to take over 12 hours or blah, blah, blah. And then, there's all kinds of random animals. There's a long swim, so much logistics, so much work. So I'm just kind of curious, how did you kind of get yourself over those humps?

(12:23) Li Ling Yung:

Yeah, Jeremy, actually, because I think I am quite a cautious person, actually, and I will take things on when I feel that I'm ready. So, my biggest concern was the cold. So, four years ago, I moved to Hong Kong and I found a really good group of swim friends here as well. And what we do in Hong Kong is that we swim year round. So we swim through winter as well. So the temperatures will go down to about 16 degrees in the water. So by comparison, the pools in Singapore, they're probably between 25. I think the competitive pools are 23, but most of the pools outdoors are about 27, 28. So it's about, more than 10 degrees lower and in the winter. I would put on a few kilos in the winter just to insulate against the cold and I would try these long swims in the cold. So for the English channel, when you sign up for a solo, you need to do a qualification swim, which is six hours in under 16 degrees without coming out of the water. So I tried that possibly, I think the first winter I was here, I tried that. And I was like, yeah, it's actually doable. It's very scary when you first think about it because you get very cold. For me, after about an hour to two hours, but then your body kind of drops the temperature slightly and it feels doable.

So I did that and then each winter, I did that again, and then COVID happened in 2020, so that was literally like less than a year after I arrived. We spent a lot of time swimming outdoors, swimming in the seas swimming off the piers when even the beaches were closed. And I actually decided that given my cold experience and if I could do the qualifier, I should just go ahead and maybe think about signing up. So I, I reached out to my old coach again in the London Swimming Club and asked him whether he thought it was doable. It was a good idea for me to sign up. You have to sign up a year and a half in advance. So I took the plunge and I said, okay, I signed up. I was like, well, I signed up. I don't really have to, I don't necessarily have to show up. I'll sign up first.

(14:03) Jeremy Au:

This is like me in my five kilometer meter run sign up. There we go.

(14:07) Li Ling Yung:

But you know, when you put a deposit down or you put the entry in, you're like, Oh, well, I got to try at least. And actually, as difficult as COVID was for a lot of people, that meant that, swimming was actually a really good outlet. There was quite a few restrictions here in Hong Kong at the time, and everywhere else in the world as well and I kind of try to make the best of it, spend more time swimming. And actually at the end of 2021, which is the year before I attempted the channel I decided to try and take on the Hong Kong 360 which is a swim that I think six people have done solo as of today. So it's around all of Hong Kong Island. So it's about 44 kilometers. I trained up that year for the end of the year. I swam that in December, 2021. It was the first time I'd done a big swim. And I went through some fairly difficult patches with having a really bad cough for actually a couple of months before the swim.

I strained my rib muscles because of that, because they were too tight from the coughing. And because of that, I had to postpone the swim by three weeks. I had an ankle injury from just kicking too much, I suppose. And so it was like, I had several of these obstacles, but then on the day itself with the support of my husband and a lot of my friends who are supporting me as kayakers or support swimmers. I actually went and did it and I got the confidence from there that yes, I can do the distance, and yes, even if I have some setbacks, injuries and things like that, it's still doable. So it gave me more of a kind of a confidence boost as well that, okay, you don't look like the channel is probably something that is something that I can at least try.

(15:30) Jeremy Au:

What was your husband thinking or doing? Was he supportive? I mean, he's not swimming next to you, right? Is he a swimmer? I have all these questions.

(15:37) Li Ling Yung:

Yeah, so, my husband, Adam, he's very supportive of what I do. He's also a very keen sports person and like me, like a keen kind of, I guess, amateur sports person. Both of us have day jobs, but he's a very keen sailor. So that complements, being able to support me And he, he actually enjoys being on boats all day. So that's quite good. He is a swimmer as well. We used to do triathlons together and it got very competitive. So yeah. He's a good swimmer too, but he's got a different sport of choice nowadays. And we spent a lot of time, doing we, spent actually our honeymoon cycling across France, including the Alps for about two weeks.

(16:09) Jeremy Au:

Wow. All that endurance.

(16:10) Li Ling Yung:

Yeah, we've always done fairly, fairly kind of, big sports events and things like that.

(16:14) Jeremy Au:

And what's interesting is that, you started training up a lot for this swim, were you scared? Were you nervous? Were you anxious? Could you sleep? I'm just so curious. What's it like? Because you put out a deposit and then you get a year, to ramp up to it. How are you feeling?

(16:27)

Li Ling Yung:

Yeah, I mean, I felt that I was cautiously optimistic. I felt that, given the amount I was training and the things that I had done at nutritionist as well, the weight gain that I was doing. So I put on about 10 kilos in total for the swim. With all of these kind of small markers and milestones, I felt that I was probably gonna be okay. Obviously, you don't know what happens on the day. Sometimes it is hard to juggle everything. So, I'm working full time as well, trying to find the time to train. I'm quite an organized person. So, some of my friends find this quite funny for the Hong Kong swim. I actually have a spreadsheet every week and every day of the distances that I needed to cover. And so I had done that before. For the channel, I knew roughly how much I needed each week. I knew how much I could tolerate without injury. So it was not, I wasn't so anxious about it. I was more like, focus on just doing what I knew I needed to do to actually get the swim done. But yeah, it means really taking a look at your schedule as well. And trying to see where that fits in with work and with life. For example you mentioned about whether I was anxious and whether I could sleep. So one thing I do is I try not to swim at night because it takes me a couple of hours after finishing to actually wind down and be sleepy. Yeah, actually swim in the mornings before work. And then take to the long swims on the weekend.

(17:34) Jeremy Au:

Wow. And what was it like swimming the English channel? Could you describe it for us?

(17:38) Li Ling Yung:

It's an amazing experience. I have to say it takes a lot of mental strength and what many people don't know is the amount of time you actually have to wait for your swim to start. So for me, mentally, that was the hardest part, that and the end of the swim, which I'll come to later. So you're waiting in Dover or in Folkestone in England for the swim to start, but it depends very much on the wind conditions. So you have a fixed window of dates and I had gone through, I had waited in Dover for every single one of those days in my swim window and the window had come and gone and I still hadn't swum yet.

And at that point, I just thought, it's possible that I don't get to swim this year. So all of my training, all of my fundraising, I'm going to have to tell people, look, I didn't manage to swim. So all of that was really weighing on my mind and that was very tough. The swim itself and that started, I was super excited. And I knew, my husband, Adam, was there to support me. I knew I had friends that were encouraging me on from Hong Kong, from London, from Singapore. And, knowing you have all that support, I was more excited about the swim than nervous. So I was just relieved also that we could actually start the swim. The swim starts at night. My start time, I don't remember clearly. I think it was at 1am, something like this. And right at the beginning, that's something that's actually, it can be quite unsettling because the boat brings you to the start line, but at the beginning, the boat cannot go into right next to the beach because it's too shallow. So you have to jump off the boat and swim away from the boat to the shore.

This is just the moonlight. And then once you're on the shore, the boat's captain sounds the horn and then you start swimming. So mentally, I think the first 11 hours, I was very lucky. It was in the dark but I'm used to it now. I don't really think about much. My brain kind of, it's like a form of meditation. I just think about my every stroke, like, Oh, no, is my technique correct? What am I doing with my fingers? Am I catching the water correctly? And then every half an hour I would get a feed. So one of my coaches from London was on the boat as well. And It was very uneventful. You have small things to look forward to, like the sunrise at around 6, 6. 30 a. m. When you've already been swimming maybe five hours in the dark. That was something when you've been so deprived of external stimuli for hours. You really see the beauty of these things and you really look forward to these things happening. And the swim itself, yeah, I was very lucky. I had a very calm day. I also didn't have any jellyfish. I had just a small one. The channel, the English channel is known for jellyfish.

(19:43) Jeremy Au:

Did the small jellyfish bite you?

(19:45) Li Ling Yung: No, it just floated by. It was just a small moon jellyfish. I was very lucky because on my relay swim five years ago, I swam through what's called the separation zone in the middle of the channel between England and France, English and French waters. And there's a lot of very large, long jellyfish in there. So, but this time they, I didn't actually have any, but I was mentally prepared for it. And I think mentally the hardest part was near the end. I think 11 hours in when you swim, for the channel, you swim in a curved shape because you are swept side to side by the current, by the the ebb and flood tides in the channel, and the boat pilot had just told me that I was going to aim for the lighthouse. It's called Cap Gris-Nez, which is a point in France where swimmers try to land. And he said, okay, well, we're going to try and land at the lighthouse.

And I think about half an hour later, I saw actually the lighthouse just getting swept all the way to my right because the tide was so strong that was pushing me all the way to my left. And then I thought, oh man, I'm done. Like, that's it, I'm not going to land. And then at that point I started to feel very frustrated, very upset that all of this work I'd done, all the waiting, all of the physical training, all this kind of the time and effort I put in, maybe after that I wouldn't get a finish. So, my coach just told me, you got to swim really hard until you get to land. You have to push through the tide. And I thought to myself as well, right, look, there's no point getting frustrated. There's nothing I can do in the worst case scenario, I will wait for the tide to come and push me back once it changes again in six hours.

So, what's the worst that could happen? I have to swim for another six hours. I thought, okay, I don't really have a choice.

(21:05) Jeremy Au:

Your backup option is swim for another six hours, you said?

(21:09) Li Ling Yung:

Well, the backup option is to get on the boat and give up, but I wasn't going to do that because I've come so far, what's the worst that could happen aside from not finishing, is that you probably have to swim for a bit longer. So, I just carried on. And luckily I was able to punch through this very strong currents because I swam on what's called a spring tide, where the currents are strong. But the swim windows are actually on neat tides, where the current is less strong. And because the current is so strong, you feel this huge volume of water moving you to the side. And so that's why you have to try and get through that. And yeah, so I swam very hard. It was interesting because I thought I knew where my limits were, but it turns out that I can still swim hard at the end of a very long swim. So I was it's interesting testing your limits mentally, physically, and when I got close to shore my coach Matt jumped in to start swimming with me and I knew, okay, right, I'm going to make it because, he's going to come in with me to the beach.

And yeah, when I finally landed on the beach, I was very relieved. People always ask, were you really overjoyed? Were you really happy? I was like, yeah, I was happy. But I think overwhelmingly, I was so relieved that I've actually done it, because this is something that was such a long time in the planning. And yeah it's a wonderful feeling that, putting all of that work in and actually having that kind of concrete outcome, that kind of result is great. And I was very glad for all the support that I got from Adam, my husband, from my friends.

One of my friends was actually flew out from Hong Kong to support, swim with me. But because we had waited so long, he had to leave. I had a lot of friends who came down to Dover who swam with me as well. So, yeah, it was, it was very nice. I mean, I felt like, their support in me had been not a waste. I mean, it wouldn't have been a waste anyway, but I felt like the support they gave me had had a good outcome too. So I was very glad for that.

(22:36) Jeremy Au:

What was it like landing? Were you tired or, because you swam for almost 13 hours, right? And then you had to punch through the current for like another, how many hours after that, the last chunk?

(22:46) Li Ling Yung:

I think it was the last probably hour and a half. So around 11 hours ish, until the end, which was like 12:54. Yeah, that was when I was trying to get through the current. Yeah.

(22:54) Jeremy Au:

And you had to push hard. I mean, were you exhausted or were you, I mean, I don't know. Are you physically tired? Were you mentally tired or?

(23:01)

Li Ling Yung:

I was definitely physically tired, but I had, with the experience that I have, I knew how I needed to pace myself. And to be fair, I had a fairly very nice calm day in the channel. So that's also helps to save your energy a little bit, but I think for me, the mental game was the hardest because you start having these thoughts in your head and think, what if I don't finish? And, your mind plays tricks on you when you've been out there for such a long time, and you forget that, actually, most people don't land on the cape. Most people actually go through the current and land on the beach. But at that point, I was, I guess, tired mentally and physically, and I kind of thought, this is it, like, I can't, I won't be able to do it, when actually, most successful swims actually end that way. So, yeah, it was a real test in where could my mind go in that kind of situation. Physically, is my body able to step it up? What would I do in this sort of situation, which is physically and mentally difficult and critical? It was an interesting way to find out like what, myself, like what I could actually take.

(23:54) Jeremy Au:

Yeah. Let's talk about those mental games that you mentioned. What were those mental games that you felt yourself going through?

(24:00) Li Ling Yung:

Okay, so during the swim, it's more about swimming to the next feed. Many marathon swimmers do this. We don't think about the time, the total time that has passed. You just think When's the next time that I get something to look forward to? And that something to look forward to usually is like when you get a drink. So I get a feed every half an hour. I'm like, when I get a feed, I think, okay, I've just done half an hour. That's great. And then I switch my brain off and then I just keep going. And then I get a feed and I'm like, okay, great. Oh, I've got another feed. Okay, great. And then I switch my brain off again. And that's how you actually endure those hours in the water because there's not too much to see. There's no fish around you. The water is just deep. When you look to the side you see just open seas. On the left, you see the boat or vice versa.

And just knowing that, my husband was there to support me. My coach was there to support me. My friends were there rooting for me and that really helped. And I was like, okay, I don't want to let anybody down. I got to try and get this done. And then when the times get tough that's really very testing. That's probably one of the harder things I've done mentally. is to kind of try and take a step back and think where is this going to get me? If I'm being frustrated, what are my options? So this was at past the 11 hour mark where my options were just like, okay, I can give up, which I was not going to do, or I can keep swimming. And the worst that can happen is just swim for longer. So you kind of try and I think in that mental state it's almost like you're so focused you just have these like a couple of choices that you need to focus on and you just go ahead and choose one and just do it. I mean, this is one of the things I like about marathon swimming because at the end of the day, it becomes a very focused, very simple choice. And this is something that, for me is a relief. In terms of like daily life, it's much more complex than this, but in marathon swimming at the end, you just need to have that focus and a couple of choices. I mean, one choice being sim and it makes life much simpler.

(25:36) Jeremy Au:

Yeah. Could you share about a time that you personally have been brave?

(25:39)

Li Ling Yung:

Yeah. So, it's probably moving to Hong Kong in 2019 because I've been in London for such a long time. We had an established life there but we decided that we wanted to move back to Asia to be closer to friends and family so my husband Adam is actually from Australia, from Singapore, and it was a bit of a leap because I resigned from my job in London. We didn't have an office in Hong Kong, and to find something completely new in Hong Kong. So I think that was the first time in my life where I actually said, okay, look, I'm going to go and find a job. I don't have anything to go to at the moment in Hong Kong when I left. ANd also it's a new set of friends. I had many friends from my time in London. We had, we knew some people who were in Hong Kong, but it was like a new environment and it was almost like nothing, people say, if it's not broken, don't fix it. We had a comfortable life in London. We enjoyed it a lot, but we kind of just wanted to try something different, but then there's also, we knew that there was going to be a period of time where you actually had to try and make things work, and to do something that was to make this change, even though you're comfortable in what you were doing before.

(26:37) Jeremy Au:

Wow. I think what's interesting is just you sharing that the bravest part is not the swim, but actually the move to Hong Kong which is, personally surprising. Why do you think that was tough? Is it because you felt like, oh, I guess early on you had said that you were a bit more risk averse and you're much more of a planner. So this felt more of a unstructured thing rather than assume itself.

(26:56) Li Ling Yung:

Yeah. So for me, I think it was just that there was so many possibilities and I didn't really have an answer to. How was it that I was going to settle in Hong Kong or what it was going to look like? And I was saying that actually swimming is very focused, right? That's just one thing. You just need to get to the end. Whereas this was more like, okay, well, we're comfortable in London. I enjoy it. Do we really want to make a change where we don't know whether we're really going to enjoy it more or we're going to what my job situation is going to look like. But I have to say, I'm very glad that we made the move in the end.

(27:22) Jeremy Au:

Yeah. On that note, thank you so much for sharing your journey, Li Ling. I'd love to summarize the three big takeaways I got from this. The first of course, thank you so much for sharing about your childhood. And what was it like to be a competitive swimmer? A little bit getting bronze and silver until about nine years old and I thought it was interesting because, you shared about how you stopped swimming and you went on to enjoy other, athletic activities, and how you met your husband, and how you enjoy your honeymoon. I thought it was a really great way to hear a little bit about your personal journey, where it's just like every other finance person working, exercising, and socializing.

The second thing, of course, is thank you so much for sharing about the swim, about how you actually had to go through a lot of mental games and a lot of stress and anxiety around whether you make it through the window or not and how you also use all these techniques to get yourself to the next bound. So, putting down a deposit and thinking to yourself that you could just back out if you have to, swimming or half an hour till the next feed. These are just like tremendous techniques and, I don't know, hacks you could say, but also I thought it was really fascinating to hear how you went through that because just thinking through how a 13 hour swim, how you broke it up and how you plan for it is really inspiring.

Lastly, thanks so much for sharing a little bit about your broader life as well. So I think you shared very much about how you actually felt like the bravest thing that you did is not a swim, but actually the move to Hong Kong, which is still super fascinating to me and still very surprising, but also understandable after hearing you out for the past hour. I also really appreciate your work with the Splash Foundation to bring swimming lessons and education for more people, both in Singapore and, Hong Kong. For those who want to learn more about Splash Foundation, where can they go to find out more?

(28:55) Li Ling Yung:

So, if anyone like to find out more about Splash Foundation, you can go to www. splashfoundation.org.

(29:02) Jeremy Au:

Awesome. Thank you so much.

(29:04) Li Ling Yung:

Thanks very much, Jeremy. Really appreciate your time and for having me on the podcast. Thank you.