Pranjal Kanwar on Startup Leadership in India and Indonesia, MBAs as CEO and Beacon of Confidence - E20

· Indonesia,Women,Executive,South Asia,Podcast Episodes English

"…as a leader, if everyone else is panicking, you absolutely cannot panic. There has to be one person who has to be the beacon of confidence, if nothing else, because ultimately, what any founder, any entrepreneur in my opinion, needs to be wildly successful, the one top thing that you need is just unbreakable confidence." - Pranjal Kanwar

Pranjal Kanwar headed international growth at Xto10X, a company founded by prominent entrepreneurs, Binny Bansal, former cofounder and CEO of the unicorn Flipkart, and Saikiran Krishnamurthy, former McKinsey senior partner and Ekart executive.

Xto10X helps startups transform initial business momentum into at-scale impact and turns them into world class organizations. Previously, Pranjal co-founded Secret Wish, an enterprise providing women in India's Tier 2 and 3 cities with quality intimate-wear. She also served as CEO of Carmudi, one of Asia's largest auto portals focused primarily on Indonesia, Philippines, and Sri Lanka.

In the span of several years, Pranjal turned a stagnating company into a flourishing venture by doubling its initial revenue and raising significant capital and sold the business in early 2020. Her educational background includes an MBA from INSEAD and an undergraduate degree in business from the University of Delhi. Pranjal spends her spare time reading and practicing spirituality.

Jeremy Au: [00:01:46] Hey, Pranjal. So good to see you. I've always been so impressed by your journey as a founder, as a CEO, as a general manager, and it's just amazing to see all of that.

Pranjal Kanwar: [00:01:55] Hi, Jeremy. I'm so glad to be here, and those are a lot of kind words coming from you.

Jeremy Au: [00:01:59] I think one thing that our listeners have always asked is we'd love to see more female CEOs and more female executives share their story. I think it's amazing to see the things that you've done and created in frontier markets as well, so talk about doing something that no one else has done.

Pranjal Kanwar: [00:02:19] Well, thank you. I hope to do a lot more, so yeah.

Jeremy Au: [00:02:22] I think for those who don't have the opportunity to meet you yet, why don't you tell us about your leadership journey?

Pranjal Kanwar: [00:02:29] Absolutely happy to share. I grew up in an entrepreneurial family. My father is a first generation businessman, so I was always very impressed by the fact that he owned something and he built it from scratch. Even though it wasn't a very big business, but I could see his passion and his commitment to the business. There were no holidays in his life, there were no birthdays, so I just remember my whole childhood, I have this feeling that there is something which is so great which means so much to this man that it's worth giving up everything else for. And, that's a feeling that I grew up with.

So at the back of my mind, I always imagined something similar for myself. So, while that was a very theoretical experience of what entrepreneurship can do to someone, I think I got the first taste of it when I was in college, and I got the opportunity to be the president of the college business club. And, there's a lot of background story to it but I always talk about that experience. Even though a lot of times I feel that people will think, oh, that's going way back, is it even relevant? But it was such a pivotal experience for me because it gave me the flavor of what it feels like to own something and to build it from scratch when you're an absolute nobody.

You know, today, I may still have access to a certain kind of network, knowledge, et cetera, but back then I was 17 and I absolutely didn't have anything but a dream. We went on to organize this university wide event that I'm sure typical to various colleges where lots of people do it, and the event was an adaptation of the show, The Apprentice from the US. So, we tried to do something like that at a college level, but it was like six, eight months of planning and then the whole thing went over a year. What it made me realize was very early on, I got exposure to leadership or what it meant to me at that age, managing a team of people who are very smart, smarter than even I was, very dedicated, very driven, and what it means to be at the helm of a team like that, which is so ambitious and so driven itself.

And also, what adversity means. So, I also think that this has happened to so many people, but our lead sponsor backed down two months before the event, right. So, like that experience was very important for me because it shaped me up as an entrepreneur, to work with people and also to deal with adversity.

From there on, I graduated, got a job at KPMG. Very quickly realized in 10 months this is not for me, you know, I'm unable to contribute in any meaningful way. But everyone told me that, "Oh my God, you're rushing," when I said I'm going to quit my job in 10 months. Everyone advised against it because they said, "You haven't given it a shot, a fair chance." But I said that this is so far from anything that I experienced while I was organizing that event. In my heart, I was creating that experience and I knew that there is no way that I'm going to be able to replicate that experience. Nothing against KPMG, it's an absolutely grand organization, but I was not going to be able to replicate that experience there. That's kind of where I solidified what I wanted in my life. I was chasing that experience of being a leader.

So, yeah! So, I moved on, I worked at a startup. Obviously I was just a junior employee, but I again saw the same drive, the same spirit, right, and that solidified my belief even more that if I ever want to get that, I have to build my own business. So I think, two and a half years I worked at that startup, which was phenomenal for me, but every single day, I only dreamt of starting my own. And, I had no money, I had no idea what I wanted to do. I was looking at business ideas left, right, and center. I was willing to sell dog food, I was willing to do anything as long as it was a business that I would build.

Eventually, I'm glad that I zeroed in on something better so I decided to sell lingerie instead. People ask me that, "Why is it that you zeroed in on that industry?" and I think that for people who know India or people who are from developing countries, it may be a very relatable problem where women are very aware of the fact that in Tier 1 cities, there is a lot of access to good quality lingerie, whether it's international brands or homegrown brands. But the minute you go beyond that, the minute you go to Tier 2, Tier 3 cities, buying lingerie is a harrowing experience. There is no accessibility or availability, and the shopping experience, usually there's a market brand outlet where, you know, there's one dingy corner where a man basically is trying to sell you a very one-size-fits-all mentality. So your adult years are scarred by that experience. You never want to step into a store like that and buy lingerie.

So that was the problem that I was trying to solve. I built that business for about two, two and a half years with my co-founder. But, eventually, I stepped out of that business and I went to do my masters. I went to INSEAD, and a lot of times again, you know, people asked me, "your business was growing, why did you leave?"

That is another thing which was so close to my heart. I grew up in a tier two city, I grew up in a small town. And when I was in Class 10, my dad literally kicked me out of the house and he told me that, You have to go to New Delhi," which is our capital, of India, "to study." At that time, I didn't understand why he was doing that to me because my whole life was in that city, where I grew up, all my friends were there.

I remember he told me that, "You lack exposure." At that point, I didn't know what the word exposure meant, but when I went to Delhi, my whole life just turned around. Everything changed. That taught me that more important than anything else in your life is exposure. So chase that for the rest of your life, because that's one short way to grow.

When I moved out of Secret Wish, genuinely my heart was craving more exposure and I knew that there is something out there in the world that I haven't seen and that's going to just broaden my horizons multifold. I went to INSEAD and I think it was such a phenomenal experience, the amount of exposure that I gained and the ways in which I grew. I don't think that I would have grown in those ways. I could have continued my previous business and maybe become successful in the conventional sense of the word, but I don't think that I would have become the person that I am.

After INSEAD I got an opportunity of a lifetime, which was to run this company called Carmudi. Again, very strange choice. I moved to Indonesia to manage an auto-classifieds business in Southeast Asia. Like everything else in my life. It was driven by this hunger to just learn and to throw myself in uncomfortable situations.

Carmudi at the time was present in seven countries across Southeast Asia, but the business was stagnating. It wasn't doing very well. And what was offered to me was a turnaround project where the picture was not very rosy, and yet it was very exciting to me. I wasn't even sure if I'm the right person for the job, but I really wanted to try. So I went to Carmudi and two and a half years there. Post that, I moved to Singapore and now I'm doing very different things.

Jeremy Au: [00:09:01] That's amazing. You shared a little bit more about your excitement as the leader, as a student. Could you share us and bring us to that room, what's it like to be Pranjal?

Pranjal Kanwar: [00:09:14] My God, this is when I was 17, 18 years old. So I think my team was about 20, 25 odd people. The first discussions were around the fact that we want to replicate that show, The Apprentice, in some way or form. And then we figured that if we do just that, it's going to be at a small scale because there's no way that we can do this at the university level, and this is huge, like tens of thousands of students who go to that university.

I remember at that time, what I realized was that I was in that room, I was surrounded by a bunch of extremely smart people and any problem that would throw their way, right? At that time, I think the only thought in our minds was how do we make this bigger? And even though it seemed there is no possible way of making this bigger, such beautiful out-of-the-box ideas just started flowing. For me, what I learned most deeply was that people were telling me a lot of things that I didn't know. And I had to become very comfortable with that. In the years that have come since, is that as a leader, sometimes you're expected to know everything, you're expected to lead and somehow you're expected to know the right answer. But, you know, a lot of times it's the people around you who will have the ideas and who will know more than you do and in those moments, the only thing that you can do is be an absolutely fabulous moderator.

Jeremy Au: [00:10:31] it sounds like your leadership journey has really taken you places. What does leadership mean to you at different phases of your career?

Pranjal Kanwar: [00:10:41] I think three explicit times when I've had to be a leader, the first one is during my college days and the second one is Secret Wish when I started, and the third is obviously at Carmudi. I think that I somehow faced a lot more challenging situations, both during my college days and also at Carmudi, which are also quite similar to each other which I'll talk about a little bit more. Secret Wish was very different because for the longest part it was more about the two of us driving the business, as opposed to leading large teams. I started from a point where I used to think that leadership is about you. It's about you motivating the team, challenging the team at the right times, but more than anything else, leading them through thick and thin. You have to know the right answers to everything. From the very start, that's what I had in my mind. Even when shit hit the fan like, we lost our lead sponsor and in situations like those, you really have people looking up to you because they're like, "You know what? We did our job, we did what we were supposed to do, and now it seems like we're not going to get anywhere."

So in those times I think what I really learned was that as a leader, if everyone else is panicking, you absolutely cannot panic. There has to be one person who has to be the beacon of confidence, if nothing else, because ultimately, what any founder, any entrepreneur in my opinion, needs to be wildly successful, the one top thing that you need is just unbreakable confidence. Because it's your confidence that keeps you going, it's your confidence that keeps you motivated, and in turn, that drills down into every single person who's working with you or looking up to you.

That really evolved for me as I moved into Carmudi. I still remember this very well. When I got the Carmudi job, one of the first people that I called was my mentor from my previous company that I used to work with, very senior guy. I actually showed him the email and I said this is beyond what I could have asked for and I'm so excited for this. He's a man of few words, and he just told me that, "You know what? I don't think you're the right person for it, but do it. What the heck, do it."

But the fact that he told me so blatantly that he didn't think I was the right person for it, it stuck with me and I thought about it for a very long time. That made me take a step back and see that if this guy doesn't think that I'm the right person for the job, what makes him think that, right? So that really shaped up my leadership style during my time at Carmudi because I very clearly laid out that these are the things I'm most definitely good at and these are the things I don't think I'm good at. So the things that I'm not good at, I'm not going to try to interfere too much. I dedicated my time into building the best team of people that I could for those areas of functions where I thought I wasn't so good.

So at Carmudi, I think the two things that stood out for me was one, this, that you trust other people, you trust their expertise over yours, and you work with them while you're shining the light on the overall objectives of the company. The second thing that stood out for me, again, because at Carmudi, we faced extreme adversity. Although we really changed the trajectory of the business over the next two years, there came a point where we couldn't raise as much capital as we needed. So the board took the strategic decision that we should probably go ahead and sell the company.

I didn't realize how long the process of the sale would be. I originally thought that, oh, this is going to happen again, out of naivety, I thought it's going to happen in six months and everything's going to be fine. I was planning the runway accordingly. But month five, I realized I'm going to need another six months. And then you don't have any runway so what do you do? That's where the real challenges start to come in, keeping your team motivated because that's the time, you know, you're at your worst. Your employees support you, but you can't pay them. Your competitors are trying to poach your employees, which seems like a sensible thing to do because you know you want them to have safe jobs. You have a sale on the horizon, but if your employees leave, then you're going to jeopardize the sale, or the sale's most likely not going to happen because the employees are part of the sale,

That time was when I really evolved as a person. It happened because I hit rock bottom. I went through all the phases of denial, of saying, "Oh my God, why did this happen to me? I don't know what to do now," et cetera, to saying that, "You know what, I have to step up. I have to own up to this. Be transparent with my employees, tell them what the situation is." But the most important thing that stood out even at the time was that I very confidently told them that the sale is going to happen, all of their dues will be paid, and all of their jobs will be secured.

Did I know at the time that all of this was going to happen? No, but the urgency that was inside of me to make sure that the sale doesn't fall through and also none of my employees suffer, they don't lose their jobs, they don't lose their salary, that gave me a whole new fire in my belly like I had never experienced before.

The beautiful thing that happened then is that I realized that that fire allowed me to do something I had never been able to do before, which was to transcend my own ego. Sometimes, what you don't realize as a CEO or as a founder is that your ego can come in the way of you taking a lot of sane decisions. Your ego and the fire that you have are two very different things, but it's very easy to confuse them and to become delusional by that.

This fire to safeguard these two larger objectives was so high that I was talking to all of my competitors. Competitors who you've looked at and said, "I'm going to beat these guys," and then you're talking to them, you're admitting in as many words that you know what, you have more money than I do and probably you can buy me out. So it takes a lot to grow as a person to be able to do that, to sit across the table from them and have those conversations.

Yeah, I think at some point, my leadership journey became about moving beyond myself and looking at the people and what the company needed at the time. And I think eventually, what came out of that whole leadership journey, which I now tell everybody, is that it's so much more about understanding yourself and just growing inwards than it is about following the principles of leadership and so on.

Jeremy Au: [00:16:45] Wow. Sounds like quite the journey. You've really had such a strong journey from your hometown in India, to founder, to MBA, to CEO, and now a builder and improver of companies and startups. What support or resources available for others who are also considering a similar journey?

Pranjal Kanwar: [00:17:11] At every step of my journey, I was extremely supported by the people around me. And I think, the only thing that stood between me and these people who were supporting me was me taking a step forward and asking. I always tell people that don't be shy, ask for help. Five people may say no, but five people will say yes. There are books and there are so many other things that people can read, but there is no greater resource than talking to people who've been there and done that.

One example that I can give you is of how I got my Carmudi job, by the way. I was at the INSEAD and I was in Singapore, I was trying to network in the region with alums. At the time, I saw this guy who was the CEO of Rocket Internet's JB in Asia, right, and he was an alum. I clicked on his profile and I was like, "Oh my God, this guy is so senior." As a college student, you're sending out so many messages, you're not sure when you're going to really cross the line and message somebody who's too senior. You're always scared. I wrote out a message to him and then I was like, "No way, I'm not sending this." Even though I used to very openly reach out to people, I was like, "No way, I'm not sending this."

And then I was just getting away from my laptop and suddenly I was like, "You know what? Forget about it," and I hit send. Within minutes, he replied to me and he asked me over for a coffee at his office. I went and we chatted, and eventually, four, five months later, that turned into the Carmudi job.

Had I not sent that message, my life would've been so different. So I always, always tell people that reach out. Reach out, I mean, anyone who wants to reach out to me ... there are so many people writing on LinkedIn, I make sure I talk to every single one of them, because I feel that it's the cycle of giving. You ask for help. You receive help. It just never ends. It astonishes me even today, I'm evaluating a business idea and the 10 people that I can just chat with, people I don't know, people I know from my network, so that is definitely what I recommend.

Jeremy Au: [00:18:58] It's interesting that you've chosen to work at Xto10X technologies, which is all about scaling startups to become world class companies using the methodology and approach. Could you share more about what the fundamental belief here is?

Pranjal Kanwar: [00:19:16] Yeah. Very happy to, actually. I have only been at Xto10X for a few months so whatever I'm going to say is not from my personal experience, but more from the company's philosophy that I'm aware of and then I deeply believe in. Xto10X has been founded by three phenomenal people who had amazing careers, one of them being the founder of Flipkart. And what they believe at their core, that there's a lot of attention which is paid to startups so in the zero to one journey, which is the very beginning of the journey. But once you reach one, you have proper product market fit, you have some revenue, you have a big team, et cetera, and suddenly you go through this phase of one to ten growth, the X to 10X growth. That's where a lot of startups fail.

And the reason they fail is because a lot of them are young, first-time founders who have not had previous exposure into building processes around things. Specifically, the three founders, they've learned this from their experiences. What are the common places where they made mistakes and where in their conversations with hundreds of founders, they felt that those founders are making mistakes. So it's those fundamental pieces where our founding team believes that if more structure were provided to a lot of the founders, then their scale-up journey can be much easier.


Jeremy Au: [00:20:31] You founded and run businesses in India and Indonesia. What would you say is the difference and the similarities?

Pranjal Kanwar: [00:20:42] So, when I first moved to Indonesia, I taught that it's very similar to India because all the problems are the same, the traffic, pollution and so on, but I would say that the markets are actually quite different. They do have some similarities. The top things that come to my mind in terms of similarities, one is that both countries are extremely relationship-driven. But while seeing that both are relationship driven, I would say that Indonesia is on a much higher scale as compared to India. That was a little bit of a shock for me because when I first moved to Indonesia and people are like, "Oh, it's a relationship-driven economy," I was like, "Yeah, I come from India. Trust me, it's the same there." But I realized that no, it's not the same. It's four or five X more.

The second thing, which is a little bit of a pain point in both the countries is the bureaucracy, which was very easy for me to accommodate to in Indonesia because I'd already seen it growing up in India.

But the core difference that I found was in the people. In India, people are a lot more competitive and cutthroat as compared to people in Indonesia, who I felt were more content with the jobs that they have. It just percolated into the environment of the company itself.

So I felt that in India, people are willing to work till 10:00 PM every day and they're okay to work like seven days a week. In Indonesia, people draw more boundaries between work life and personal life. It took me some time to adjust to that. I had to get a little used to that. But otherwise, I would say they have more similarities than differences.

Jeremy Au: [00:22:07] It's interesting that you were a founder and then you took some time as the MBA and then you became a CEO. What do you think about the MBA? Some founders are like, "Boo, MBAs," and executives are like, "Yay, MBA." So how do you feel that gap? How do you feel about it?

Pranjal Kanwar: [00:22:28] I completely agree, I mean people who say that, "Oh my God, do I have to do an MBA to become XYZ?" The answer is no. So which is why lots of people who come and ask me that I'm applying to INSEAD or I'm applying elsewhere, the first question I ask is, genuinely, you should really know that, why is it that you want to do this. So whether you're a founder or you're somebody who wants to go down the executive path, you need to know exactly what you're looking for. I would say that I never did my MBA to make the transition to the executive path. I told you earlier on in the story that I did my MBA because I understood the importance of exposure, and I knew that this is going to be exposure on a whole different level. And if moving from a Tier 2 city to Tier 1 city changed me so much, then imagine how much this will change me? Which is why I graduated from INSEAD with an extremely happy experience. I didn't have a positive or a negative experience because I just got exactly what I wanted from it. That's the key. As a founder, do I look down upon people who do MBAs? Not at all. Maybe it's a bit helpful, I agree, but it was never my aim to transition to a CEO role and to use an MBA to do that. Even after INSEAD, I genuinely wanted to start my business. But when I saw the Carmudi opportunity and it wasn't really an executive role. Yeah, maybe it was an executive title, but it was pretty much going back to being a founder, but even harder because building your own company from scratch is way easier than taking on someone else's legacy and then figuring your way around it.

Jeremy Au: [00:23:56] Now, one thing we know is that globally, there's only 28% of startups have at least one female founder and the number of female startup CEOs is an order of magnitude less as well from the 28%. What do you think about that?

Pranjal Kanwar: [00:24:16] Yeah, I mean, the numbers are there. I don't want to talk about why that is the case, because I think everybody knows that it's a very systemic kind of situation where because of gender roles and various other things, not as many women are making it to that level. But I think what's more important is to say that how are we going to change this? And while there may be many, many ways to change this, if I draw from my own story, if somebody tells me a female entrepreneur, thumbs up, I've genuinely never looked at it that way because I have a brother. My father is an entrepreneur, I have a sister, but I was raised in a household where there were absolutely no gender roles. I never thought that I was any different from my brother or that expectations from me were any different from him.

For me, that's very pivotal. How many ever people I talk to, I just tell them the same thing, that if at a very young age, you make someone feel like one complete individual who's responsible for themselves and for making their lives useful, then it doesn't matter whether you're a boy or a girl or so on and so forth because it just gives you the fire to push through .

Now, will women have a harder time to break through as compared to men? Yeah. We already know all the systemic issues that exist. But if you have that fire in your belly, then at least for me, it just makes me push harder and harder and rebel more and more. Somehow, the gender biases blend into the background. At least for me personally, I know they don't do for a lot of people. Even when I went to Indonesia to become the CEO of Carmudi, a lot of people ask me that question. That, "Oh, first of all, you're a foreigner. You come from another country. On top of that, you're a woman. Are people taking you seriously?" I genuinely, not even for one second did I feel that people were not taking me seriously, or that there were any gender biases, or there were certain conversations I couldn't have. I didn't feel it because those thoughts are not there in my mind.


Jeremy Au: [00:26:06] I recently had someone apply for a job with me. One of the questions I often ask is what are professional career goals? This case, she was like, "I want to be a CEO." Similarly, it struck me that I heard many male candidates say that, but it was the first time personally that I heard a female candidate say that out thousands of interviews I've done over my career. For people like her who have that desire to, over the next five, 10, 20 years work towards becoming a CEO, what advice would you give them?


Pranjal Kanwar: [00:26:43] I would say focus on the things that are working for you rather than paying attention to the things that are not working for you, because that's just a complete waste of time. I would say that while there are lots of people who may not take you seriously or who may be biased against you, trust me, I can personally vouch for it, there are also enough and more people who will take you seriously and who will not have any gender biases against you. So focus on those people and those things. If you're confident of your abilities, whether it's your knowledge, your skill, your ability to be able to ... for example, I remember the first time I went for my Carmudi board meeting, there were six men in the room and they were all above the age of 40, I would assume. They were all very senior, well-accomplished men. I was the only woman and also fairly young at the time. But to be very honest, the thought that I was the only woman in that boardroom, I'm not kidding, it didn't even cross my mind.

It was only when the meeting got over and we were sitting and chatting that somebody just, you know, joked about it, that "Oh, just look at the gender ratio in the room," and that's when it hit me, that oh, they're right. It's true. There's only one woman in the room. But if it's not in your mind, if you're not focusing on how people will have biases against you, then it's just not going to be a part of your personality. That's just how it is for me. You also systematically choose the people who kind of respect you for who you are. So, I've also never been in situations where ... there are plenty of women who felt uncomfortable in boardrooms and such, but you just actively choose the right people around you and you choose the environment in which you can flourish and grow, and there's absolutely no limit to what you can do.

Jeremy Au: [00:28:18] That's amazing. I think that's great advice. Want to add that the person who applied for the job and said that, I actually accepted her for the role, because she said that, because I was blown away. I love people who are hungry, that want to have that clear ambition and desire to get there. Right? I think that's the motivation that drives someone from point A to point B to point C. Being able to be part of that story is great for the company that gets to have them for that stage of career and it's great for everybody around.

I think when you look at the future for all of these things, frontier economies, India, Indonesia, Southeast Asia, what excites you about the future?


Pranjal Kanwar: [00:29:04] what's really exciting to me is the fact that ... I was telling you earlier, that Shoe Dog is one of my favorite books. When you read Shoe Dog, he mentions that how Silicon Valley is everything. This is 1960s, he's talking about. Venture capital funds were just coming up and they only wanted to fund tech startups which were coming out of the Valley. And then you think that was 1960s, and this is probably 1970s for us, and now it's only growing much, much, much faster. So yes, while we've all [for the] last one decade, have our eyes set on the Valley, but we have our own little valleys cropping up everywhere, right? Like including Bangalore and then places in China and now Singapore, Indonesia, they're all becoming such great hubs of technological advancement. So it's just very exciting to see this kind of equitable distribution that's now going to exist across the world.

Jeremy Au: [00:29:51] Last question. As a high performing founder and CEO archetype, I'm curious, how do you unwind and maintain balance in your life? Are there hobbies you do? What happens?


Pranjal Kanwar: [00:30:05] I think that's actually a very important question because it also kind of builds into everything that I do as an entrepreneur. So one of my sincerest passions is spirituality. I'm grateful that I grew up in a country like India, where spirituality outside of religion ... I actually don't want people to confuse it with religion, but spirituality means being in touch with your spiritual eternal self, is spoken about a lot. Our scriptures talk about it, and there are so many accomplished yogis, et cetera, who talk about it. I think I was very lucky to be introduced to the concept very early on. It has evolved to become the most important thing in my life. It defines who I am professionally, it defines who I am personally. It defines all the growth for me, whether it's understanding spirituality, whether it's reading science that explains spirituality, which in 2020 it's more than ever, or it's my daily meditation practice that I do, I think these are some of the most sacrosanct things in my life.

I just urge more and more people to be curious about this. In today's generation, they don't want to talk about religion, which is amazing, but this is the beautiful time when people can actually talk about something which is much greater than religion which is spirituality, because spirituality tries to answer the fundamental question of what is the purpose of my life. And it is that purpose of my life which will drive everything from my personal to my professional life. So I just urge more and more people to become curious about it, and I'm always very happy to chat about it in detail with anybody who wants to.


Jeremy Au: [00:31:33] Amazing, Pranjal. It's been a pleasure hearing your journey and rise over time, and we can only expect amazing things from you in the future.


Pranjal Kanwar: [00:31:43] Thank you so much, Jeremy. It's been absolutely lovely sharing my story with you.

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