Save Your New Year Resolutions, Misleading Weight Loss Industry & Personal Health Transformation with Nir Eyal - E382

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“The vast majority of people living in America or the rest of the industrialized world are living better than the princes and kings 200 years ago. We have all kinds of things. This would have blown their minds. And yet, we find ourselves dissatisfied, not because we don't have enough, but because of how comparison is the thief of joy. It's how the other guy has more. That's what keeps us wanting and craving and lusting and desiring. Whereas, if we take a step back and think about how incredibly lucky we are to be born here and now, we should be dancing in the streets every day over how fortunate we are, but it's hard to put that in perspective.” - Nir Eyal

“It turns out that the right way to manifest, the right way to visualize, is not visualizing what you want. It's visualizing what will get in the way of what you want. The best thing to do is not visualize, "Oh, I can't wait to have a six-pack and be on the beach and show off how fit and trim I am." The thing you need to visualize is, "What will I do when something gets in the way of the steps I need to take to accomplish that goal?" That's what you should make the plan about. So, just stopping at the dream, the outcome, without figuring out the input, what to do to get that goal, is why people fail.” - Nir Eyal

“It turns out nicotine is not as addictive as we thought. It's much more about your perception of it being addictive than actually addictive, that the reason that people get addicted to a substance like nicotine is not the effects of the nicotine itself. If you ask smokers why they spoke, the number one reason people will say is it relaxes them. Nicotine is a stimulant. Smoking should not relax you. What smoking does is it gives you relief from telling yourself not to smoke. So the way you get addicted to cigarettes is you buy a pack of cigarettes. You feel guilty about it. You say, ‘I'll smoke one and that's it.’ I won't smoke again. And then you start thinking and ruminating about it. And it's that urge of, ‘Oh, come on, let me smoke already.’ What do you do when you smoke? You take big breaths. It's that pause of, oh, I don't have to tell myself ‘no’ anymore. That's what people find relaxing.” - Nir Eyal, Wall Street Journal Bestselling Author

Nir Eyal, Wall Street Journal bestselling author of “Hooked” and "Indistractable”, and Jeremy Au talked about three main themes:

1. Save Your New Year Resolutions: Nir discussed the nature of January 1 resolutions and the high rate of people abandoning their goals. He attributed this to a warped ecosystem of advice that fails to address the root causes of behavioral stagnation. He emphasized the importance of reconstructing routines to foster consistency, which is essential for rejuvenating lost aspirations. He advised to be thoughtful about the systemic approach to personal growth, rather than relying on transient motivations or flawed self-help strategies.

2. Misleading Weight Loss Industry: Nir took a critical look at the health and fitness industry, highlighting the ambiguity and often misleading information surrounding weight loss and exercise. He pointed out the vested interests in maintaining a level of confusion among consumers, with examples ranging from meal bars to dietary supplements. He advocated for debunking the quick-fix myths propagated by the fitness industry and a focus on the fundamentals: nutrition, regular exercise, and the importance of social connections.

3. Personal Health Transformation: Nir shared his personal transformation from being clinically obese to achieving fitness at the age of 46, highlighting his passions for surfing and running barefoot as key elements of his fitness regime. He also discussed his experiments with different activities, including the reasons why swimming and trampolining did not work for him and offered a personal perspective on finding joy in exercise and the trial-and-error process of discovering what works for individual fitness goals.

Jeremy and Nir also touched upon the broader implications of technology in facilitating behavioral change, the psychological challenges associated with dieting and exercise, and the role of community and social support in sustaining healthful habits.

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(01:27) Jeremy Au:

Hey Nir, really excited to have you on the show, again. And, what a time.

(01:31) Nir Eyal:

Yeah, great to be back. Xin nian kuai le.

(01:33) Jeremy Au:

Yes, it's Chinese New Year very soon as well. I mean, it's like a holiday season back to back, right? The joke is that work doesn't get started till March in Asia

(01:41) Nir Eyal:

That's right. That's right. Yep. My in laws are in town and, we're showing them around Singapore again. They, this is their fourth time, third time here and they love it. so we're showing them all the things that have been, constructed since They, were here last year. It's amazing how much Singapore has changed in the past year. This whole, have you been to Trifecta yet?

(01:57) Jeremy Au:

Not yet. I clearly missed out on this.

(01:59) Nir Eyal:

Oh, yeah, because you've been in the States for a while. They opened up this unbelievable surf park, skate park, and ski park right off of Orchard. I think it cost them over five million dollars, I heard, to build this thing. It's amazing to be able to surf on this gigantic wave, right in the middle of Singapore. It's incredible.

(02:16) Jeremy Au:

Oh, I got to try this out. Sounds perfect. My wife and I tried exploring skiing lessons, but it turns out you need to be at least three and a half. And what was interesting was that, we were talking to a parent, and what she was saying was that the struggle for kids is that, you know, you only ski during ski season, which is winter time.

And so, you only kind of like, pattern where you have a burst of lessons during wintertime. And then for the rest you're not studying it. And so, the kids kind of forget a lot of it. My Wife was saying like, Hey, having an indoor simulation where you kind of practice at least once a month, feels like a natural learning routine.

(02:45) Nir Eyal:

Yeah, the kids is one thing, right? When they get it down, they kind of learn it for life, riding a bike, it's when you're an adult that you forget it very quickly, I don't know how many, I've taken so many lessons on snowboarding, and it never sticks because I never do it for long enough, but snow skiing, I learned as a kid, and I never forgot it, but snowboarding, I don't know how many lessons I've taken and it still doesn't stick, but now I surf, I started going to the surf lessons there, and I love it, man, I'm there all the time.

(03:07) Jeremy Au:

Wow, I mean, you know, between those three, between, is it surfing, skiing, snowboarding, yeah, well, so many things to learn, sounds like actually a pretty fun, like, membership to do, actually, it's just like, you know, get a break

(03:18) Nir Eyal:

Yeah. It's not cheap, but it's a lot cheaper than going to Bali or Australia or, you know, buying a boat or something.

(03:24) Jeremy Au:

Yeah, exactly. And then um, I mean, you can balance it out, right? yeah, actually, I think one of the regrets I have is just like, I've never really gotten into the skiing and snowboarding game. I think I also got into something where I kind of experienced it as a kid, but not too much, like you said. And then as an adult, when I finally got to ski, I could just watch all my friends get injured because, it's every time there's a ski expedition, somebody pops their knee.

(03:45) Nir Eyal:

That's right. Remember, everyone, exercise is very dangerous. That's why I don't exercise. No, I'm just kidding. I do exercise. Which is actually what you want to talk about today. You want to talk about health habits and, how to keep fit, which is something that I've worked on for the past, over a decade now in terms of changing people's behavior and, behavioral design and how technology can help people change behavior. I've invested in several companies in the space. I know you've been following several companies in that area too, and it is. It's really difficult. I would say it's probably, you know,

I would actually put it as the most difficult behavior to change is what people eat. That's the most difficult to change, then, how they exercise. And only then, I would put like cigarettes and drugs and other things. I think it's actually harder to get people to change what they eat than it is to get them to stop doing drugs. Believe it or not. It's a really hard behavior to change.

(04:24) Jeremy Au:

It's a perfect because like you said, it's the new year, new year resolutions, exercise right there at the top of it. It's something that I, too, am very interested and curious about. You mentioned that it was a personal journey for you in terms of your exercise discovery. Could you share a little bit more about that?

(04:37) Nir Eyal:

Sure, yeah, I used to be clinically obese and, today I'm, in the best shape of my life. I'm gonna turn 46 years old next month. And for the first time in my life, I have like a, not quite a six pack, but some definition of my abs. You actually saw, we met up before you went to New York, at the exercise, I'm hesitating because I don't want to say the guy's name, but a very famous fitness influencer came to Singapore and, kind of pissed me off.

I have to say, I was kind of disappointed. I don't know if you remember what happened, but this famous celebrity exercise guru came to town. And, somebody emailed me and said, Hey, he's coming to town. If you want to exercise with him, give me 35 bucks and we'll exercise together with him. And so, I said, okay, you know, he's, let's see what he knows. Let's see what he can do. And we show up and a bunch of people come, I guess he had put something about social media that he was coming to town and maybe like 50 people came. And a few of us were ready to exercise. And then this guy gives a little talkie poo. He says, you know, Hey, everybody, we can all live forever because of AI, blah, blah, blah, throw in whatever keyword you'd like. And, everybody claps hands. Hooray. Yay. We're going to live forever if we follow this guy's protocol. And then we start exercising and Mr. Fitness guru starts just chatting it up. Just starts talking to everybody. And so I start sweating. I start putting in my time and exercising and, he's not. And so what did I do? I ran over, you were right there. I think he was talking to you and I pulled him in and I said, come on, we can talk, we have time after exercise, to talk, right? That's the plan.

We're like, we met up at the, at the beach club there. So there's, you know, we were all going to go get coffees and coconut water and chit chat afterwards. So I said, come on, join, come on, let's exercise. And he kind of giggled a little bit and then he slinked back to the crowd and he just kept talking the whole time. And I was super disappointed about this because I felt like it was a real betrayal of what we're supposed to be doing as fitness influencers. Right? That the number one thing you can do is eat right and exercise. Top two things. Okay? Eat right and exercise. We all know this, right? And yet the questions that people were asking this guy, "What type of protein should I use and what do you think about peptides? And what do you think about the right algae that I should use for my enemas?" And all this crazy crap that is on the margins, that doesn't actually make you all that healthier. The ice baths, the olive oil, the this, the that. And it really, I think, encapsulates what drives me nuts about fitness influencers.

And I think people should stop listening to all fitness influencers because they are making you fat. I'm gonna say that again. Fitness influencers are making you fat because the more time we spend listening to these gurus who have very little qualifications, just like Mr. Fitness that we all, we both met, we spend less and less time on the stuff that really works. Eat right, exercise, sleep well, have friends. That's it. But we don't want to talk about that stuff because it hurts to exercise, I don't want to not eat unhealthy food, right? I don't want to do that stuff. Can't you just tell me the magic pill? Can't I just buy something? And the answer is no, you can't, you got to do some hard work. And so that's what really frustrates me. And I wish I wish I knew how to crack that code on how to get people to stop focusing on the minor stuff and actually put in the effort to the stuff we know works.

(07:28) Jeremy Au:

So I was there as well. I did not pay 35 bucks. I was just told it was a meet and greet. So I had a totally different context from you going in. And I was told that this exercise was happening on the side. So that's an interesting entry point. And I think for me, my perspective was, you know, as I shared with you later, it's like, one part was just to have a conversation and see the crowd, but the other part was just to, you know, kind of observe and hear out methods and practices and how he was approaching those questions, right? And I thought it was just an interesting dynamic, like you said, which is, like there was like three layers. One was like the practices that he's espousing in terms of tactics with routines. Then a second level that I thought was interesting was like, what's the tribe that you're in, right? You know, how do you self identify to be part of that group that was there? And then the third, of course, is actually there's a philosophical dynamic, right? You know, this was a little bit more in the longevity space. And so there's an interesting philosophical dynamic about it, which is quite different from what you just mentioned, which is like, you know, have friends, get exercise. I mean, there's a, it's almost inverted in terms of like, what the end outcome of that philosophy is, right? I thought it was fascinating.

(08:28) Nir Eyal:

What's the philosophy?

(08:30) Jeremy Au:

I think the philosophy that we had here, he had a statement which was like, don't die. And then, you know, next day I, I was listening to a sermon about how to die with meaning, to how to have a life with meaning, And I thought it was just an interesting, and obviously it's not mutually exclusive.

I think you can be healthier and choose to live a longer life, and also choose to have a life. With a deeper sense of meaning. I just thought it was an interesting and, I mean, it was a controversial position that was staked out, right?

(08:55) Nir Eyal:

Of course, maybe, you know, cause, cause putting on a t shirt, right, trying to extend your life as long as possible? it takes up too much words. I guess, I guess my big beef was he had the opportunity to set the example and he didn't take it. He should have stood up and said, I love your questions, I can't wait to answer them, we'll have time after the workout, but let's not forget what matters, folks: diet, exercise, sleep, and friends. Like, he had that opportunity, but he didn't take it because he was too busy selling olive oil. Which, by the way, why the hell does a billionaire need to sell olive oil? Does that not bother you? Like, isn't that sketchy? Like, really? Olive oil? That's, and by the way, the studies, I've looked into this, the studies of, around olive oil, if you look at the effect size, it's puny, and we see this all the time, right?

Like, of course, maybe, you know, cause, cause putting on a t shirt, right, trying to extend your life as long as possible? it takes up too much words. I guess, I guess my big beef was he had the opportunity to set the example and he didn't take it. He should have stood up and said, I love your questions, I can't wait to answer them, we'll have time after the workout, but let's not forget what matters, folks: diet, exercise, sleep, and friends. Like, he had that opportunity, but he didn't take it because he was too busy selling olive oil. Which, by the way, why the hell does a billionaire need to sell olive oil? Does that not bother you? Like, isn't that sketchy? Like, really? Olive oil? That's, and by the way, the studies, I've looked into this, the studies of, around olive oil, if you look at the effect size, it's puny, and we see this all the time, right?

Oh, it's the ice bass, oh, it's the this, it's the intermittent fasting, it, whatever the, the crap du jour, because people don't want to focus on those four things that really matters, and it, drives me nuts. Like, why are we constantly looking for these easy solutions? If I hear about ice baths one more time, I'm gonna lose my crap. Cause, like, really?

Okay, yes. If you're ron James and you had a really tough game. Okay, great. Ice baths are good for reducing inflammation. They're not gonna help you shed that tire around your waist, for God's sakes. You gotta eat right and exercise for that. But we don't want to hear that. I mean, we'd rather spend our time in the sauna because it's easier, or the ice bath because we feel like we did something. Because consistently exercising, or consistently eating right is just too hard. We don't want to do it. And as a behavioral designer, this is fascinating, right? This is what I do for a living. but it's also really frustrating because, you know, I see this all the time when it comes to distraction with my second book, "Indistractable". You know, every once in a while I'll hear from somebody who says, you know, I do these calls, I do this weekly office hours where somebody can call me.

And as long as they've read my book, they can ask me anything they want. And I would say like, probably like maybe one out of every 50 calls. I get somebody who says, Hey, you know what? Your book didn't work. Oh, tell me more. I really want to hear, right? like I spent five years writing this thing. What didn't work for you? Well, it didn't work. I read it, but it didn't work. I said, okay, great. Well, tell me what you did with step one, right? master internal triggers. That's step one. what'd you do? How'd that work out for you? Oh, you know what, Nir? I forgot that step. I didn't do step one. Oh, Okay, no problem. Tell me about what happened with step two. Make time for traction. That's step two. How'd that go for you? Oh, you know what actually I didn't do that one either. Well, what'd you do? Well, I didn't do it That's why I didn't work.

Well, no crap! Yes, of course! So are you surprised if you're smoking? Like who is still smoking in 2024? Can someone explain this to me? Honestly, if you are smoking in 2024, do you not know? Like, here we are, my friend, I have, I literally have friends who only drink organic wine and organic fruit. And meanwhile, they smoke. Are you kidding me? What is wrong with you? Right? How could that possibly be? And yet this is the state we live in. Like how can you, you know, drink a beer on Saturday night and worry about ice baths on Sunday morning.

Alcohol is a known carcinogen. It's a known carcinogen. Nobody says anymore that alcohol is good for you. We know alcohol causes cancer. We know it! There's no safe quantity of alcohol. None! Zero! And yet, okay, I'm going to spend all my time and resources not focused on cutting out the bad stuff. I'm going to add the junk science. The ice baths and the olive oil and the whatever chakras and who knows what. And so explain that to me, Jeremy. Please, solve this for me. It's driving me crazy.

(12:19) Jeremy Au:

Well, I think for us who are kind of really looking at the latest bout of research, I think those conclusions are a lot more clearer. It's just that for a lot of us, even myself, I would say the version of myself three years ago, you know, a lot of that stuff was not as clear. Now, what I mean by that is, wine, resveratrol, grape skins. I mean, we're still dealing with the impacts of that research and the pop.

(12:40) Nir Eyal:

Brought to you by the French Vineyard association, right?

(12:43) Jeremy Au:

Yeah, it was just hard to tell.

(12:46) Nir Eyal:

But now we know, right? Well, here's the, okay, here's the thing in Asia that gets me, okay? Asians, many of them, almost all of them, what is it, like 90%, get Asian flush, okay? You don't need a laboratory to tell you that alcohol is not good for you if every time you take a drink or two, you get flushed. Your body is telling you I can't process this poison you've put into me. And yet, we keep guzzling it down. Like, isn't that enough? you don't need the Surgeon General to tell You about this. Like, it's on your face, bro.

(13:12) Jeremy Au:

Well, I mean, when you put it that way, I think it's a lot clearer now and hopefully someone listening to this kind of like clicks a little more. It's just that, you know, if you asked me three years ago, I would've been like, oh yeah, a glass of wine is what, you know, the science says. I know that's terrible for me to say that because that's not what the science says actually, but, you know, that's perception of what the science says, right? and, you know, it's just tough. I mean, another part is like processed foods, right? I mean, you know, you pull out this little wrapper and it just says "organic". There's all the different words, buzzwords around there, and he was like, oh, yeah. And then you start processing, you start reading the thing. And he's like, okay, now. There's a lot of words here that, you know, natural has no basis.

(13:46) Nir Eyal:

That, you're right. I think, is an unfair competition. When you hear a label, when you see a label on a package that says Organic Cane Sugar. Or, you know, Organic Dried Cane Juice. Right? That's sugar. So that's, that, I think that should be out loud. That's, that's not fair. That's clearly deception and you see it far too often, or like, this peanut butter cup that has grams of sugar, but it says organic on it. Ah, and somehow that's going to make it healthy. That's probably an unfair fight. Yeah, I agree. I agree. But some stuff is so much more obvious, right?

Like, should we have sympathy for people who smoke in this day and age? Who doesn't, you know, especially in Singapore, in the States, we don't do this, but in Singapore, you put those disgusting images of black lungs and people's neck with a huge cancer, like spouting out cancer juice all over the picture. It's disgusting. And you can't smoke a pack of cigarettes without seeing this disgusting imagery. And still, people smoke and I understand it's addictive, right? Of course, we know it's addictive. It's not that addictive, right? Lots of people have quit smoking many times, and yet people continue. At least though, I have to say, I have to give Singapore a lot of props from a social engineering perspective. One of my favorite things about Singapore are the boxes, the box of shame, like how you make smokers go into the box of shame. They're all huddled together into this little box drawn on the floor and they all have to be really close together smoking each other's breath, but still, people still smoke. I think Singapore has one of the higher, per capita smoking rates in the world, surprisingly enough.

(15:08) Jeremy Au:

Well, I think the tricky part is like, you know, nicotine is one hell of a drug, I mean, it's, it's tasty.

(15:14) Nir Eyal:

It isn't, it isn't. You know, it's funny that the research shows that it's actually not as addictive as we thought. But I don't know if you've seen some of this stuff, but yeah, it turns out nicotine is not as addictive as we thought. What it turns out is it's much more about your perception of it being addictive than actually addictive That, the reason that people get addicted to, a substance like nicotine is not the effects of the nicotine itself. It's funny, if you think about it, if you ask the average smoker, why do you smoke, right? they know it's bad. Every smoker, if you ask them for more than five minutes, they all want to quit. Right. I've never met a smoker, who says, Oh, I would love if my child smoked. They all don't want their children to smoke because they know it's bad for them. They know it's bad for them as well. But if you ask them, okay, well, why do you smoke? The number one reason is people will say it relaxes me. That makes no sense. Nicotine is a stimulant. Nicotine is a stimulant. So smoking should not relax you. What smoking does is that it gives you relief from telling yourself not to smoke. So the way you get addicted to cigarettes is you buy a pack of cigarettes. You feel kind of guilty about it. You say, okay, I'll smoke one and that's it. I won't smoke again. And then you start thinking and ruminating about it. Oh, I wish I could smoke again. Oh, I wonder what it's like. I wish I could do it. You start thinking. And it's that urge of Oh, come on, let me smoke already. That I finally get to smoke. And of course, what do you do when you smoke? You take big breaths, right? And that's actually what people find relaxing. It's that pause of, oh, I don't have to tell myself "no" anymore. That's what people find relaxing.

There's a really great study where they took two groups of flight attendants and they both left from Tel Aviv and they both smoked. Both groups of flight attendants smoked. And they put one group of smoking flight attendants on a flight that went from Tel Aviv all the way to New York, like an eight and a half hour flight. Another group of flight attendants, they had a flight that went from, from Tel Aviv to London. Okay, about half the length now, they asked these flight attendants every 30 minutes to rate how much they wanted to smoke because, of course, they couldn't smoke on the flight.

If they smoked on the flight, they'd be fired or taken to jail, right? You can't smoke on a flight anymore. So you would think if it was all about the nicotine, right? This is what everybody says. Oh, nicotine is so addictive. That's why I can't stop smoking. You would think that as the body metabolized the nicotine, they would both desire another smoke in the same amount of time, right? Like three hours, four hours after their last cigarette, oh boy, they both really want a cigarette. But that's not what happened. What happened in the study was that while the group of flight attendants that was landing in London was reporting a very high craving, when that's, at that same exact point in time when the group of flight attendants that was on their way to New York was over the Atlantic Ocean and they could not smoke, they reported very low craving.

Why would that happen? Well, it turns out that both groups did not experience the same craving at the same time. They experienced high level of craving 30 minutes before the landing. Both groups, it didn't matter how much time had elapsed. It mattered how much time until your next smoke proving what I just said earlier, right? That it's all about, Oh, come on, get off the plane already. Get off the plane. I want to smoke. I want to smoke. I want to smoke. I can smoke as opposed to when they, when the flight attendants going to New York knew there was no option, they could smoke after three hours. They still had four hours left in the flight. They didn't even think about it. It was not even an option. They know they get fired. They didn't report cravings. So this is a great example of how this story that nicotine is the reason we get so addicted is a little bit oversimplified.

(18:17) Nir Eyal:

It's much more about the way the mind plays these tricks on us.

(18:20) Jeremy Au:

That's super fascinating because as you talked about it, you know, you reminded me of Buddhism, which the teaching is that, not having something that causes a problem is you desiring something that is the real kicker here. So I thought it was interesting.

(18:32) Nir Eyal:

Very Buddhist. Yeah. What's that saying? I don't remember if it's a Buddhist saying. I don't know who it's attributed to. But one of my favorite quotes, I should look this up, is that the wealthy man is not one who has everything, but the one who desires nothing. Very Buddhist philosophy there, right? That this perception of wealth, of wanting, that's the problem. It's the not, you're truly wealthy when you want for nothing.

(18:52) Jeremy Au:

Yeah. Now, I was listening to this podcast by Dr. K, which is this psychologist. His point of view, it was a saying that in Hinduism, his claim was that, you know, a lot of the people who become ascended and achieve some level of Nirvana were kings and princes. And the reason why was because as kings and princes, they always had everything. And so once they had everything and realized they were still unhappy, as a result, they will had the natural next step to figure out why they're so unhappy, even though they had everything. So I thought it was an interesting, uh, parable at least.

(19:25) Nir Eyal:

Very interesting. And a great lesson for us today because for the average person, certainly living in Singapore, and most people, the vast majority of people living in, in America or the rest of the industrialized world, we are living today better than the princes and, kings of 200 years ago. We're certainly living better than them. Most of us don't have parasites. We have indoor plumbing. uh, We have all kinds of things. We can go to the grocery store whenever we're hungry. We don't have famine. So yeah, our life is that type of existence that, let alone things like talking, you know, I'm in Singapore, you're in New York, you know, having this magic screen that we can talk through, or the fact that we can fly in the sky in a tube at almost the speed of sound, I mean, this would have blown their minds. And yet still, we find ourselves oftentimes dissatisfied and not because we don't have enough, but because of how comparison is that thief of joy, right? It's how the other guy has more. That's what keeps us wanting and craving and lusting and desiring. Whereas, opposed to if we take a step back and think about how incredibly lucky we are to be born here and now, we should be dancing in the streets every day over how fortunate we are, but it's hard to put that in perspective.

(20:25) Jeremy Au:

100% agree. So that makes me so curious. What do you think about New Year resolutions? Thumbs up, thumbs down?

(20:32) Nir Eyal:

I think they can be, like everything, it's about how they're used. I think what we tend to do with New Year's resolutions is we visualize what we want and we make the resolution based on that. I want to have a beautiful beach body, so I have to get in shape for that. That's going to be my New Year's resolution. I want to buy a fancy car. So my resolution is going to be to make more money or I want to have great relationships with my family.

And so that's my New Year's resolution is to spend more time with my family, which is fine, but dangerous because we know that visualizations have a downside, that when you spend time visualizing an outcome, your brain gives you the reward of feeling like you already have it a little bit. And so that becomes very dangerous. So this is why I'm not a big fan of like these, you know, they do this thing today, like visualization boards or what do they call them? like mood boards or, manifestation boards where you cut out like images of beautiful people and rich people.

And when you put it on a board, because those things are supposed to manifest, that's bullshit. Don't do that. It Turns out that the right way to manifest, the right way to visualize, is not visualizing what you want. It's visualizing what will get in the way of what you want. This is super important. The best thing to do is don't visualize, Oh, I can't wait to have a six-pack and be on the beach and show off how fit and trim I am. The thing you need to visualize is what will I do when something gets in the way of the steps I need to take to accomplish that goal. Meaning, what do I do next time, I'm at a party and somebody offers me a piece of chocolate cake when I'm trying to diet? That's what you should visualize. That's what you should make the plan about what am I going to do when something gets in my way. That's the right way to do it. So just stopping at the dream, the outcome without figuring out what's the input, what do I need to do to get that goal? Then of course, that's why you fail. That's why the vast majority of people, what's national quitting day? Like January 16th or something. There's actually a national quitting day cause that's when most people abandon their new year's resolution, like two weeks after new year's, because they just wish for something, but then they don't put in their calendar when they're going to do that thing, and then they don't think about what's going to happen if something gets in the way of that goal. So make sure you do all three.

(22:29) Jeremy Au:

So we're past January, and let's just say somebody has a new resolution, and like you said, most people will quit or not be making significant progress to it. Any advice on how to salvage or to resurrect or rejuvenate trajectory that they want to be on?

(22:45) Nir Eyal:

Sure. Yeah. So don't leave it. Let me back up. So there's kind of two mentalities, and I think one is very wrong and one is very right. And one mentality is what I call the to-do list mentality. The to-do list mentality says, I'm going to put all my dreams and aspirations on a big, long list, and someday they're going to magically come to me. And anybody who's accomplished anything knows that's just not how it happens. Okay, like that's just not how life works.

What you have to do, and in fact, it actually drives you crazy because when you have this big long list of all these things you still haven't accomplished, all these dreams, all these aspirations with no constraint, right? A to do list has no constraint. You can always add more and more. So what happens every day you look at this list and here's all the things you still haven't accomplished, loser. And in fact, it makes you less likely to achieve your goals because every day you're looking at this list of things you still have not done. And that's why you hear people waking up in their forties or fifties and saying, Oh, what have I become now? I have a midlife crisis because I thought I could do so much better in life. Well, it's because you just wrote down what you wanted. You didn't write down when you're going to get what you want. So the right way to do it is not a to do list mentality. It's a time boxed mentality.

Time boxing is when we turn those dreams into time. We turn our values into time. So using your calendar. So writing things down is great. Get it out of your brain. Put it on a, in an app or on a piece of paper. Great. But that's step one, right? Step two is now putting it on your calendar. So if you say, I want to lose weight. Okay, great. When are you going to plan time in your day to cook healthy calorie restricted meals? When are you going to put time in your day to exercise, right? It's got to be in your calendar. If it's on your calendar, it just stays in your to do list. It's never going to happen. So that's a big part of how I would salvage these new year's resolutions to figure out, okay, what is it you want and where is that time on your calendar? If it's not in your calendar, you haven't really committed. It's just an aspiration, right? Good luck. It's not going to happen. It's gotta be in your schedule, whether that's have better relationship with your family, whether that's work on that business you've been planning, whether it's write that book you want to write, whether it's getting in shape, whatever it is, it's gotta have a defined place in your schedule.

(24:34) Jeremy Au: Yeah. And you know, the number one year resolution is exercise, like you said, on lose weight. Those two combined are like the vast majority of your resolutions. So are there any, I don't know what's the term, template or you know, kind of slots or schedules or routines that you would recommend for this cluster of aspirations.

(24:54) Nir Eyal:

Yeah, I mean, I wish I could give you some kind of magic solution and there isn't a magic solution. Maybe, maybe the practicalities people aren't as aware of but at the end of the day, I hate to tell you this folks, but if you want to lose weight, there's only one way. You have to restrict calories. Sorry. I mean, you know, okay, fine. Maybe there's, you can take some kind of drugs if you're in a really bad situation. You know, we have Ozempic and all kinds of new fancy medication that cost a fortune, and when you get off those medication, guess what happens? All the weight comes right back. So there's, you know, there's always a price for everything, but long term weight loss only happens when we restrict calories. It's the only way. So what I, I'll tell you what I exactly do, right? So when I came back from America, when I was visiting for Thanksgiving in November, I put on about seven pounds because American food is very fattening and American cities, are not walkable.

So unlike Singapore, where I'm walking, you know, 15,000 steps per day easy, in the States, I've probably got maybe four or five if I didn't go to the gym, which most days I didn't cause we were with family. So I had about seven extra pounds when I came back to Singapore. So what did I do?

I took out my app, right? It's right on my home screen. I can show it to you here. Here it is. It's called Carb Manager. And so what do I do every day? I put in what I eat, like down to the calorie. And so that is the only way that I found for at least when I, in these periods of time, when I need to, you know, get back to my, my, my range that I feel comfortable in, I got to track calories and I lose maybe about a pound a week. So about half a kilo. So a week, don't go much faster than that cause then it's not sustainable, but I literally track everything I eat. And if I'm not in a caloric deficit and the app will tell you, not everybody knows what their caloric deficit is, but the app will tell you, okay, here's what, you know, here's what stasis is here's what, if you want to stay your weight, here's how many calories you eat. and you want to be, you know, maybe 10, 15 percent below that, much more than that, and you'll lose weight too quickly and you'll gain all back. It's as simple as that. It's through caloric restriction. Now, one of the hacks of caloric restriction is that you can exercise in order to eat more.

So that's what I do. One of the things I love about living in Singapore is that it's an incredibly beautiful, walkable city. And so I just love walking. So I'll put in you know, if I'm trying to lose a few pounds, I'll take my regular 15, 000 steps, and maybe I'll bump it up to 20 or 25, 000 steps, particularly on a weekend. I just love walking. And that's truly like, for me, the purpose of exercise, like the purpose of exercise to me is not get big muscles. It's so I can eat more. And to put that in proportion, by the way, people don't realize how caloric food is, right? So about a mile of walking is about one apple. Right? So, so you can't go crazy, right?

And this is, by the way, why, people who don't track their calories, and then do some kind of big athletic event, I would say most people I know who have run a marathon end up heavier after the marathon because exercise makes you hungry. Your body is not stupid. If you start expending more calories, your body will release more ghrelin, the hunger hormone that will tell you, Hey, we're spending more calories. You need to eat more. But people think, Oh, well, you know, I exercised this morning. I ran whatever, 10K this morning. I deserve to eat. This is called moral licensing. It's when you're good in one area. It's like squeezing on a balloon, right? You try and squeeze one end of the balloon. What does it do? It pops out the other end. right? So look, I was so good in my exercise. So that means I can eat a lot. And because they're not tracking their calories, they don't just eat a little bit more. They eat a lot more. And So they, they add, you know, 200, 300, 400 calories every day. Well, you know, 3500 calories is one pound. And so they end up tacking those pounds. And that really is, if you want to get skinny or you want to get fat, the formula is not do something for a week or two. The reason people my age look at their bodies and say, Oh my God, how did this happen? It's not because they gained 20, 30, 40 kilos overnight. It's because every month they would gain one kilo. Anybody can gain one kilo in a month. That's easy. That's like you have one extra kaya toast or one too many kopis. That's easily a hundred calories day. And that ends up being a kilo or so per month. Easy peasy. So what happens?

Okay. Well, that's 12 extra kilos a year. And then over a decade, right? Like that starts piling up and then you look back and say, Oh my gosh, how did this happen? And that's the same way with losing weight. It's a slow, gradual process. So the problem isn't that people don't know how to lose weight and be fit. It's that it just takes so darn long. And so that's the mantra that I keep repeating to myself when I want to quit. When I just want to give in to something, the mantra I keep repeating to myself is consistency over intensity. Consistency over intensity. You talked about new year's resolutions earlier, new year's resolutions. What happens when you make a new year's resolution?

Most people, January 2nd, they're in the gym, they're sweating like crazy, pedaling as fast as they can running on that treadmill as quickly as they can. That's intensity. That gets you nowhere, right? What gets you somewhere is consistency. It's showing up not only January 2nd, but also January 3rd, 4th, 5th and all the way through the year, consistently doing that little bit of work. That's what gets you where you want to go.

(29:21) Jeremy Au:

What's interesting is that I've noticed for myself that I had to go through, as I aged like you, two things, right? One was discovering an exercise that I enjoyed. And two was, accommodating the fact that I was starting to get injuries, right? And last year was the first time. training up for my military service and the first time in my life, I got, pulled my ankle twice, same for my neck while exercising. So how would you think about maybe perhaps the first, which is how do you discover an exercise that you enjoy? Because I know that's something that you've been experimenting and and trying as well.

(29:50) Nir Eyal:

Good points because again, if the mantra we should follow is consistency over intensity, number one, remember we say abs are made in the kitchen. That's something everybody in the fitness community knows. Abs are made in the kitchen, not in the weight room, not in the gym, right? Like abs are made in the kitchen. So if you want to lose weight, it's very hard to exercise yourself skinny. So number one has to be diet, but if you are using exercise to perhaps supplement a healthy diet, then you're absolutely right. Like the first priority should be, you have to do it safely. So there's many sports that look super fun that I used to enjoy that I just, I don't do anymore.

Like I can't play tennis. I won't play basketball really. Like it's just for a 46 year old guy like me, it's just too risky because, like a perfect example. My daughter is super into trampolining and trampolining is great, right? like it's a wonderful sport and it gets your heart rate up for kids. I fell one time in the wrong direction and my ankle twisted over and it turned blue and I couldn't run. I couldn't do any exercise. I could hardly walk for like eight weeks. It was horrible.

And so, that's really hard to get back on track. and so I don't want that to happen again. So I'm very selective about what kind of exercises I do. So what do I do? So, strength training, if you do strength training, you know, with standard gym type equipment, dumbbells, kettlebells, pretty hard to hurt yourself. You know, as long as you're a little bit warmed up, that type of stuff can be done very safely. I'll give a little plug. I'm not affiliated with them in any way but a place that I love is Sparked. Have you been to Sparked?

(31:13) Jeremy Au:

You've invited me once and it's far away from my home. So I just work out at home my own.

(31:18) Nir Eyal:

Yeah. They only have one facility, but I'll give them a quick shout out. So they do cognitive fitness. It's really cool. So what they done, what they've done, they have all this really high tech equipment that you're playing like these 45 second games, while you're exercising. So they'll have like a math problem that you have to solve on this LED board and you have to hit the answer while you're stepping on a Reebok step or, you have to, they have this board, they call the surfboard. It's like this platform that's moving while you're doing a hollow hold or while you're doing a plank, or they'll ask you capitals of countries as you're like throwing a ball against a target. So it's like all these brain games that develop not only cardiovascular and muscular fitness, but also balance, agility, peripheral vision. So you're doing much. And most importantly, it just goes by quickly. Like it goes by much faster than, okay, I'm going to slog out a 10K run. so I, I really enjoy that. That's been really fun.

And then, as I mentioned, I took up surfing recently. It's crazy how many calories surfing burns. It's actually burns more calories for me per hour, even though I'm waiting for other people to take their turns. I can actually burn more calories per hour surfing than running, believe it or not, cause it really gets your heart rate up there. But the most important thing, it's not what you do is that you do it consistently and safely. So you're absolutely right.

(32:27) Jeremy Au:

And, you know, what's interesting is that I've noticed for myself that, it was kind of like this trial and error dynamic, right? And I felt quite defeated sometimes, but I was reading this interesting quote, it's not a circular, it's a spiral where you're just testing different formats of what works, what doesn't work. For you historically, what was stuff that didn't work for you? I mean, you mentioned trampolining is something that didn't work for As part of the experimentation, what were some experiments that didn't work for you in terms of sports and nutrition? This is a personal perspective.

(32:52) Nir Eyal:

Yeah. I mean, there's definitely things that I don't do anymore but I wouldn't say they didn't work for me. I would say they worked for me for a while and then I kind of lost interest. So swimming is fantastic. Super low impact, but super boring. I just didn't I swam for a while. I swam for probably a year and it was really effective. I mean, you burn a ton of calories in the pool, but I didn't like it after a while. It just got super, super boring.

So now I, what I have stuck with, for the past, I think about 12, 13 years now is running and, this is kind of weird, but I love to run barefoot. So you'll see me every once in a while running by the marina, and I run completely barefoot, which is very strange, but it's the only way I've ever run where I don't get injuries. So I used to run with shoes, and I was a heel striker. So every time I would hit the ground, my heel would bang on the ground, which many people do. Not everybody, but many people do when they put on a thick soled shoes. And so what, if you think about it ergonomically, what that means is you're kind of like pounding your knees every time you hit the payment. And so, I would get knee injuries. I would get shin splints. It was just very painful.

And so I gave it up for a long time. and then I read this wonderful book. I think it's the author's name is McDougall, Chris McDougall. I think it is, it's called Born to Run. And it's basically about the history of running and how, actually, even though today people, you know, say you run barefoot, people think that's crazy. We run barefoot. Well, you know, athletic running shoes are like maybe 60, 70 years old. Like, it's still to this day. Some of the best runners in the world run barefoot. that's how they learn to run. Right. Because that's how the human body evolved, right? We evolved to be persistence hunters. We are evolved to be a species whose competitive advantage as hunting, right?

People think that ancient people used to hunt with bows and arrows. Well, not really the way you think we didn't. We didn't have a bow and arrow from like, you know, a hundred yards away. Bows and arrows are effective if you're pretty darn close, right? Like maybe 20, 30 yards away. That's when you can make a kill. So you have to get pretty close to an animal in order to kill it. Well, how do we do that? We would run after them until exhaustion, until that animal died because, you know, we are the only primates who don't have hair, right? I'm going way down a rabbit hole. Tell me to stop here anytime. But if this is

(34:49) Jeremy Au:

Keep going. I love it.

(34:52) Nir Eyal:

One of the central mysteries that anthropologists have tried to ask is why don't we have hair? You ever wonder that? We only have hair? on our heads and we have a little bit of hair here, like, like in weird places in our bodies. Why? Like chimpanzees are hairy, gorillas are hairy. Why are we the only primate that is hairless essentially? And the reason why is because our competitive advantage as a bipeds, right? The fact that we don't walk on all fours, we walk on two legs is that we can outrun any animal on earth. Did you know that? The humans can outrun any animal, not with speed. We suck at speed. We're very slow, but we can run longer sustainably than any other animal on earth. Isn't that amazing? Right? We don't have, we don't have sharp claws. We don't have great, you know, sharp teeth, but we can outrun animals. So what we would do as a species, is, you know, unlike a lion who, when a lion hunts, they look for the weak. They look for the young because lions are very fast.

So they want the slower animal to eat up. That's not what ancient humans did. Ancient humans would look for the biggest baddest buck, right? The, they look for the kudu or the antelope that had the biggest horns, the biggest male. Cause they're the slowest, right? They, and so, so they, sorry, not The, slowest. they are the ones that give up first. So what would they do? And you could actually still, there are still tribes of people in Africa who do this to this day. The tribe will pick off that big, bad male kudu or antelope with the huge horns that are very heavy. And they just start running after them just at a slow pace, you know, just consistently running, separate them from the pack and just run after them. Just chugging, running after that animal. Now. After a few hours, right, what, what starts happening, the antelope runs for a while, gets exhausted because they're covered in fur, they start to overheat, and all the only way they can cool down is through panting, and so they have to stop for a while, and then the humans catch up to them, and then they get scared, they start running again, and so it turns out for about the length of a marathon, you can kill an antelope or a kudu just through exhaustion. They just fall down and basically die. And then you use a bow and arrow to, to pierce them and bleed them to death. And then you got your prey. This is how the human species evolved. So long story short, we evolved to run and we evolved to run barefoot. And so, I don't know, that story really inspires me because I feel like I'm connected to some like 200, 000 year story of how our species used to hunt back in the day. So I don't know, I just thought that'd be interesting cause I thought it was fascinating.

(37:05) Jeremy Au:

No, that's a cool story. You know, it actually ties up quite nicely to also what you shared about you know, habits and new year resolutions, which is about running consistently over a long period of time. And with that asset and attribute, take down the biggest, baddest, which could be a new resolution.

(37:18) Nir Eyal:


(37:19) Jeremy Au:

On that note, I'd love to summarize the three big takeaways I got from this conversation. First of all, thank you so much for, sharing very much about I'll say new year resolutions and salvaging them. I thought it was a beautiful way of talking about the fact that, yeah, there is understandable percentage of people who are quitting and that comes because of flawed methodology and approaches and also kind of like the ecosystem of advice out there is kind of like warped out there. And so I think you gave some really good advice about how to go about being thoughtful about how to rebuild the routines and the structures, that gives you the consistency to rejuvenate new aspirations that you had.

Secondly, thank you so much for sharing about health, and weight loss and exercise. I thought that was a wonderful industry view actually about what's clear, what's not clear. And like you said, there's a lot of incentives to make it less clear over time. And I think we gave some examples of meal bars, candy drugs and different aspects to talk about tradeoffs and how people should really focus on that. You said to focus on big ones, which is nutrition, exercise and have friends. So I thought it was a wonderful set of conversations there.

And lastly, for being so personal about it. So I thought it was great to hear your personal journey, about what you tried, you know, from being clinically obese to being a fit 46 year old, I actually enjoyed hearing about what you love, which is like surfing as well as, running barefoot and also I thought it was to hear about things that didn't work out for you, which was swimming, which was boring and never approach a trampoline ever again because, those

(38:41) Nir Eyal:

Never again. I learned my lesson.

(38:43) Jeremy Au:

Those are pits for the ankles, you know, and I've gotten injured on a trampoline as well, actually. On that note, thank you so much, Nir, for sharing your experience.

(38:51) Nir Eyal:

My pleasure. Great to see you again.

Jeremy Au:

Hei Nir, sangat senang sekali Anda ada di acara ini, lagi. Dan, waktu yang tepat.

Nir Eyal:

Ya, senang bisa kembali. Xin nian kuai le.

Jeremy Au:

Ya, sebentar lagi Tahun Baru Imlek juga. Maksud saya, ini seperti musim liburan yang berurutan, bukan? Leluconnya adalah bahwa pekerjaan tidak akan dimulai sampai bulan Maret di Asia.

Nir Eyal:

Itu benar. Benar. Ya. Mertua saya ada di kota dan, kami mengajak mereka berkeliling Singapura lagi. Ini adalah kali keempat mereka, ketiga kalinya ke sini dan mereka menyukainya. jadi kami menunjukkan kepada mereka semua hal yang telah dibangun sejak mereka ke sini tahun lalu. Sungguh menakjubkan betapa Singapura telah berubah dalam setahun terakhir. Seluruhnya, apakah Anda sudah pernah ke Trifecta?

Jeremy Au:

Belum. Saya jelas melewatkan hal ini.

Nir Eyal:

Oh, ya, karena Anda sudah lama di Amerika. Mereka membuka taman selancar, taman skate, dan taman ski yang luar biasa di dekat Orchard. Saya rasa mereka menghabiskan lebih dari lima juta dolar, saya dengar, untuk membangunnya. Sungguh menakjubkan bisa berselancar di atas ombak raksasa ini, tepat di tengah-tengah Singapura. Sungguh luar biasa.

Jeremy Au:

Oh, saya harus mencobanya. Kedengarannya sempurna. Saya dan istri saya mencoba menjajaki pelajaran ski, tapi ternyata Anda harus berusia minimal tiga setengah tahun. Dan yang menarik adalah, kami berbicara dengan orang tua, dan apa yang dia katakan adalah bahwa perjuangan untuk anak-anak adalah, Anda tahu, Anda hanya bermain ski selama musim ski, yaitu musim dingin.

Jadi, Anda hanya memiliki pola yang sama, di mana Anda memiliki banyak pelajaran selama musim dingin. Dan kemudian selebihnya Anda tidak mempelajarinya. Jadi, anak-anak agak melupakan banyak hal. Istri saya berkata, Hei, dengan melakukan simulasi di dalam ruangan di mana Anda berlatih setidaknya sebulan sekali, terasa seperti rutinitas belajar yang alami.

Nir Eyal:

Ya, anak-anak adalah satu hal, bukan? Ketika mereka bisa, mereka mempelajarinya seumur hidup, mengendarai sepeda, ketika Anda dewasa Anda akan melupakannya dengan sangat cepat, saya tidak tahu berapa banyak, saya telah mengambil begitu banyak pelajaran tentang snowboarding, dan itu tidak pernah melekat karena saya tidak pernah melakukannya dalam waktu yang cukup lama, tapi ski salju, saya belajar sejak kecil, dan saya tidak pernah melupakannya, tapi snowboarding, saya tidak tahu berapa banyak pelajaran yang telah saya ambil dan itu masih belum melekat, tapi sekarang saya berselancar, saya mulai mengikuti pelajaran selancar di sana, dan saya menyukainya, kawan, saya ada di sana setiap saat.

Jeremy Au:

Wow, maksud saya, Anda tahu, di antara ketiganya, antara, apakah itu berselancar, ski, snowboarding, ya, banyak hal yang bisa dipelajari, kedengarannya seperti keanggotaan yang sangat menyenangkan, seperti, keanggotaan yang harus dilakukan, sebenarnya, itu seperti, Anda tahu, istirahat.

Nir Eyal:

Ya, memang tidak murah, tapi jauh lebih murah daripada pergi ke Bali atau Australia atau, Anda tahu, membeli perahu atau semacamnya.

Jeremy Au:

Ya, benar sekali. Dan kemudian um, maksud saya, Anda bisa menyeimbangkannya, bukan? Ya, sebenarnya, saya rasa salah satu penyesalan yang saya miliki adalah, saya tidak pernah benar-benar terjun ke permainan ski dan snowboarding. Saya rasa saya juga pernah melakukan sesuatu yang saya alami saat masih kecil, tapi tidak terlalu sering, seperti yang Anda katakan. Dan kemudian sebagai orang dewasa, ketika saya akhirnya bisa bermain ski, saya hanya bisa melihat semua teman saya terluka karena, setiap kali ada ekspedisi ski, ada saja yang lututnya patah.

Nir Eyal:

Itu benar. Ingatlah, semuanya, olahraga itu sangat berbahaya. Itu sebabnya saya tidak berolahraga. Tidak, aku hanya bercanda. Aku berolahraga. Itulah sebenarnya yang ingin Anda bicarakan hari ini. Anda ingin berbicara tentang kebiasaan kesehatan dan, bagaimana menjaga kebugaran, yang merupakan sesuatu yang telah saya kerjakan selama lebih dari satu dekade dalam hal mengubah perilaku orang dan, desain perilaku dan bagaimana teknologi dapat membantu orang mengubah perilaku. Saya telah berinvestasi di beberapa perusahaan di bidang ini. Saya tahu Anda telah mengikuti beberapa perusahaan di bidang itu juga, dan memang benar. Ini sangat sulit. Menurut saya, mungkin saja, Anda tahu.

Menurut saya, perilaku yang paling sulit diubah adalah apa yang orang makan. Itu yang paling sulit untuk diubah, kemudian, bagaimana mereka berolahraga. Baru setelah itu, saya akan menyebutkan rokok, narkoba, dan hal-hal lainnya. Saya pikir sebenarnya lebih sulit untuk membuat orang mengubah apa yang mereka makan daripada membuat mereka berhenti menggunakan narkoba. Percaya atau tidak. Ini adalah perilaku yang sangat sulit untuk diubah.

Jeremy Au:

Ini sangat tepat karena seperti yang Anda katakan, ini adalah tahun baru, resolusi tahun baru, olahraga ada di puncaknya. Itu adalah sesuatu yang saya juga sangat tertarik dan penasaran. Anda menyebutkan bahwa ini adalah perjalanan pribadi bagi Anda dalam hal penemuan olahraga Anda. Bisakah Anda berbagi sedikit lebih banyak tentang hal itu?

Nir Eyal:

Tentu saja, ya, saya dulu mengalami obesitas secara klinis dan, hari ini saya berada dalam kondisi terbaik dalam hidup saya. Saya akan berusia 46 tahun bulan depan. Dan untuk pertama kalinya dalam hidup saya, saya memiliki perut yang tidak terlalu six pack, tapi ada beberapa bagian perut yang terlihat jelas. Anda tentu tahu, kami bertemu sebelum anda pergi ke New York, di tempat latihan, saya ragu-ragu karena saya tak ingin menyebutkan nama orangnya, tapi seorang influencer kebugaran yang sangat terkenal datang ke Singapura dan, agak membuat saya kesal.

Harus saya katakan, saya agak kecewa. Saya tidak tahu apakah Anda ingat apa yang terjadi, tapi seorang guru olahraga terkenal ini datang ke kota. Dan, seseorang mengirimi saya email dan berkata, Hei, dia akan datang ke kota. Jika Anda ingin berolahraga dengannya, berikan saya 35 dolar dan kita akan berolahraga bersama dengannya. Maka, saya berkata, oke, Anda tahu, dia, mari kita lihat apa yang dia ketahui. Mari kita lihat apa yang bisa dia lakukan. Dan kami muncul dan banyak orang datang, saya kira dia telah mengumumkan di media sosial bahwa dia akan datang ke kota dan mungkin sekitar 50 orang datang. Dan beberapa dari kami sudah siap untuk berolahraga. Dan kemudian orang ini memberikan sedikit celetukan. Dia berkata, "Hei, semuanya, kita semua bisa hidup selamanya karena AI, bla, bla, bla, bla, masukkan kata kunci apa pun yang Anda inginkan. Dan, semua orang bertepuk tangan. Hore. Hore. Kita akan hidup selamanya jika kita mengikuti protokol orang ini. Lalu kita mulai berolahraga dan Pak Guru Fitnes mulai mengobrol. Hanya mulai berbicara dengan semua orang. Dan saya mulai berkeringat. Saya mulai meluangkan waktu dan berolahraga, sementara dia tidak. Lalu apa yang saya lakukan? Saya berlari, Anda ada di sana. Saya pikir dia sedang berbicara dengan Anda dan saya menariknya dan berkata, ayolah, kita bisa bicara, kita punya waktu setelah latihan, untuk berbicara, bukan? Itulah rencananya.

Kami seperti, kami bertemu di klub pantai di sana. Jadi, Anda tahu, kami semua akan pergi minum kopi dan air kelapa dan mengobrol setelahnya. Jadi saya berkata, ayo, bergabunglah, ayo, mari berolahraga. Dan dia tertawa kecil dan kemudian dia kembali ke kerumunan dan terus berbicara sepanjang waktu. Dan saya sangat kecewa dengan hal ini karena saya merasa ini adalah sebuah pengkhianatan terhadap apa yang seharusnya kami lakukan sebagai influencer kebugaran. Benarkan? Bahwa hal pertama yang bisa Anda lakukan adalah makan dengan benar dan berolahraga. Dua hal utama. Oke? Makan dengan benar dan berolahraga. Kita semua tahu ini, kan? Namun pertanyaan yang ditanyakan orang-orang kepada orang ini, "Jenis protein apa yang harus saya gunakan dan apa pendapat Anda tentang peptida? Dan apa pendapat Anda tentang ganggang yang tepat yang harus saya gunakan untuk enema saya?" Dan semua omong kosong gila yang ada di pinggiran ini, sebenarnya tidak membuat Anda menjadi lebih sehat. Mandi air es, minyak zaitun, ini, itu. Dan itu benar-benar, menurut saya, merangkum apa yang membuat saya tergila-gila dengan para influencer kebugaran.

Dan saya pikir orang-orang harus berhenti mendengarkan semua influencer kebugaran karena mereka membuat Anda gemuk. Saya akan mengatakannya lagi. Influencer kebugaran membuat Anda gemuk karena semakin banyak waktu yang kita habiskan untuk mendengarkan para guru yang memiliki kualifikasi yang sangat rendah ini, sama seperti Pak Fitness yang kita semua, kita berdua temui, semakin sedikit waktu yang kita habiskan untuk melakukan hal-hal yang benar-benar berhasil. Makan dengan benar, berolahraga, tidur nyenyak, punya teman. Itu saja. Tapi kami tidak ingin membicarakan hal itu karena berolahraga itu menyakitkan, saya tidak ingin tidak makan makanan yang tidak sehat, bukan? Saya tidak ingin melakukan hal itu. Tidak bisakah Anda memberi tahu saya pil ajaib? Tidak bisakah saya membeli sesuatu? Dan jawabannya adalah tidak, Anda tidak bisa, Anda harus bekerja keras. Dan itulah yang membuat saya frustrasi. Dan saya berharap saya tahu cara memecahkan kode tentang bagaimana membuat orang berhenti berfokus pada hal-hal kecil dan benar-benar berusaha untuk hal-hal yang kita tahu berhasil.

Jeremy Au:

Jadi saya juga ada di sana. Saya tidak membayar 35 dolar. Saya hanya diberitahu bahwa itu adalah acara temu sapa. Jadi saya memiliki konteks yang sama sekali berbeda dengan Anda yang datang. Dan saya diberitahu bahwa latihan ini hanya sebagai sampingan. Jadi itu adalah titik masuk yang menarik. Dan saya pikir bagi saya, perspektif saya adalah, Anda tahu, seperti yang saya ceritakan kepada Anda nanti, ini seperti, satu bagian hanya untuk bercakap-cakap dan melihat kerumunan orang, tapi bagian lainnya hanya untuk, Anda tahu, mengamati dan mendengarkan metode dan latihan dan bagaimana dia mendekati pertanyaan-pertanyaan itu, bukan? Dan saya pikir itu adalah sebuah dinamika yang menarik, seperti yang anda katakan, seperti ada tiga lapisan. Yang pertama adalah praktik-praktik yang ia terapkan dalam hal taktik dan rutinitas. Kemudian tingkat kedua yang menurut saya menarik adalah seperti, apa suku yang Anda ikuti, bukan? Anda tahu, bagaimana Anda mengidentifikasi diri Anda untuk menjadi bagian dari kelompok yang ada di sana? Dan yang ketiga, tentu saja, sebenarnya ada dinamika filosofis, bukan? Anda tahu, ini sedikit lebih ke arah umur panjang. Jadi ada dinamika filosofis yang menarik tentang hal ini, yang sangat berbeda dari apa yang baru saja Anda sebutkan, yang seperti, Anda tahu, memiliki teman, berolahraga. Maksud saya, ada sebuah, hampir terbalik dalam hal, apa hasil akhir dari filosofi tersebut, bukan? Saya pikir itu sangat menarik.

Nir Eyal:

Ceritakan lebih lanjut. Apa filosofinya?

Jeremy Au:

Saya pikir filosofi yang kami miliki di sini, dia memiliki pernyataan yang seperti, jangan mati. Dan kemudian, Anda tahu, keesokan harinya saya, saya mendengarkan khotbah tentang bagaimana cara mati dengan penuh makna, tentang bagaimana cara memiliki kehidupan yang penuh makna, dan saya pikir itu sangat menarik, dan tentu saja itu tidak saling bertentangan.

Saya pikir Anda bisa menjadi lebih sehat dan memilih untuk hidup lebih lama, dan juga memilih untuk memiliki kehidupan. Dengan rasa makna yang lebih dalam. Saya hanya berpikir bahwa ini adalah hal yang menarik dan, maksud saya, ini adalah posisi kontroversial yang dipertaruhkan, bukan? Kau tahu?

Nir Eyal:

Ya, dia sangat pandai menarik perhatian. Jadi cara terbaik untuk menarik perhatian adalah dengan memberikan semacam hadiah yang bervariasi, bukan? Untuk memiliki semacam dorongan yang membuat orang berpikir dua kali. Oh, apa maksudmu, jangan mati? Bagaimana mungkin? Benar? dan tentu saja dia tahu kita semua akan mati, kan?

Seperti, tentu saja, mungkin, Anda tahu, karena, karena mengenakan kaos, benar, mencoba memperpanjang hidup Anda selama mungkin? itu membutuhkan terlalu banyak kata. Saya kira, saya kira, hal yang paling saya sayangkan adalah dia memiliki kesempatan untuk memberikan contoh dan dia tidak mengambilnya. Seharusnya dia berdiri dan berkata, saya suka pertanyaan Anda, saya tidak sabar untuk menjawabnya, kita akan punya waktu setelah latihan, tapi jangan lupa apa yang penting, teman-teman: diet, olahraga, tidur, dan teman-teman. Seperti, dia memiliki kesempatan itu, tapi dia tidak mengambilnya karena dia terlalu sibuk menjual minyak zaitun. Ngomong-ngomong, mengapa seorang miliarder harus menjual minyak zaitun? Apakah itu tidak mengganggu Anda? Seperti, bukankah itu samar? Seperti, benarkah? Minyak zaitun? Itu, dan ngomong-ngomong, penelitiannya, saya sudah melihat ini, penelitian tentang, seputar minyak zaitun, jika Anda melihat ukuran efeknya, sangat kecil, dan kita sering melihat hal ini, bukan?

Seperti, oh, ini adalah ice bass, oh, ini adalah ini, ini adalah puasa intermiten, ini, apa pun itu, omong kosong, karena orang tidak ingin fokus pada empat hal yang benar-benar penting, dan itu membuat saya gila. Seperti, mengapa kita terus-menerus mencari solusi yang mudah ini? Jika saya mendengar tentang mandi es sekali lagi, saya akan kehilangan akal sehat. Karena, seperti, benarkah?

Seperti, oke, ya. Jika kau LeBron James dan kau mengalami pertandingan yang sulit. Oke, bagus. Mandi air es bagus untuk mengurangi peradangan. Itu tidak akan membantumu menghilangkan lemak di pinggangmu, demi Tuhan. Anda harus makan dengan benar dan berolahraga untuk itu. Tapi kami tak ingin mendengarnya. Maksud saya, kita lebih suka menghabiskan waktu kita di sauna karena lebih mudah, atau mandi es karena kita merasa telah melakukan sesuatu. Karena berolahraga secara konsisten, atau makan dengan benar secara konsisten itu terlalu sulit. Kita tidak ingin melakukannya. Dan sebagai seorang perancang perilaku, hal ini sangat menarik, bukan? Inilah yang saya lakukan untuk mencari nafkah. tapi ini juga sangat membuat frustasi karena, Anda tahu, saya sering melihat hal ini dalam buku kedua saya, "Indistractable". Anda tahu, sesekali saya akan mendengar dari seseorang yang mengatakan, Anda tahu, saya menerima telepon, saya melakukan jam kerja mingguan di mana seseorang dapat menghubungi saya.

Dan selama mereka sudah membaca buku saya, mereka bisa menanyakan apa pun yang mereka inginkan. Dan saya akan mengatakan, mungkin sekitar satu dari setiap 50 panggilan. Saya mendapatkan seseorang yang mengatakan, Hei, Anda tahu? Bukumu tidak berhasil. Oh, ceritakan lebih banyak. Aku benar-benar ingin mendengarnya, bukan? Seperti aku menghabiskan lima tahun untuk menulis ini. Apa yang tidak berhasil untukmu? Yah, itu tidak berhasil. Aku membacanya, tapi tidak berhasil. Aku berkata, oke, bagus. Nah, ceritakan apa yang Anda lakukan dengan langkah pertama, kan? pemicu internal. Itu langkah pertama. Apa yang kau lakukan? Bagaimana itu berhasil untukmu? Oh, kau tahu, Nir? Aku lupa langkah itu. Aku tidak melakukan langkah pertama. Oh, Oke, tidak masalah. Ceritakan apa yang terjadi dengan langkah kedua. Membuat waktu untuk traksi. Itu langkah kedua. Bagaimana denganmu? Oh, kau tahu sebenarnya aku juga tidak melakukan yang itu. Nah, apa yang kau lakukan? Yah, aku tidak melakukannya Itu sebabnya aku tidak bekerja.

Nah, tidak ada omong kosong! Ya, tentu saja! Jadi, apakah Anda terkejut jika Anda merokok? Seperti siapa yang masih merokok di tahun 2024? Bisakah seseorang menjelaskan hal ini kepada saya? Jujur saja, jika Anda merokok di tahun 2024, apakah Anda tidak tahu? Seperti, ini dia, teman saya, saya punya, saya benar-benar punya teman yang hanya minum anggur organik dan buah organik. Dan sementara itu, mereka merokok. Apa kau bercanda? Apa yang salah denganmu? Benarkan? Bagaimana mungkin itu bisa terjadi? Namun inilah negara tempat kita hidup. Seperti bagaimana Anda bisa, Anda tahu, minum bir pada Sabtu malam dan khawatir tentang mandi es pada Minggu pagi.

Alkohol adalah karsinogen yang dikenal. Ini adalah karsinogen yang dikenal. Tidak ada yang mengatakan lagi bahwa alkohol baik untuk Anda. Kita tahu alkohol menyebabkan kanker. Kami tahu itu! Tidak ada jumlah alkohol yang aman. Tidak ada! Nol! Namun, oke, saya akan menghabiskan seluruh waktu dan sumber daya saya untuk tidak fokus pada hal yang buruk. Aku akan menambahkan ilmu sampah. Mandi air es dan minyak zaitun dan chakra apa pun dan entah apa lagi. Jadi jelaskan padaku, Jeremy. Tolong, selesaikan ini untukku. Ini membuatku gila.

Jeremy Au:

Well, saya rasa bagi kita yang benar-benar melihat penelitian terbaru, saya rasa kesimpulan-kesimpulan itu jauh lebih jelas. Hanya saja bagi banyak dari kita, bahkan saya sendiri, saya akan mengatakan versi saya tiga tahun yang lalu, Anda tahu, banyak hal yang tidak begitu jelas. Sekarang, yang saya maksudkan dengan hal itu adalah, anggur, resveratrol, kulit anggur. Maksud saya, kami masih berurusan dengan dampak dari penelitian dan pop tersebut.

Nir Eyal:

Dipersembahkan oleh asosiasi Kebun Anggur Prancis, bukan?

Jeremy Au:

Ya, sulit untuk mengatakannya. Maksud saya, serius, seperti, Anda tahu, itu hanya-

Nir Eyal:

Tapi sekarang kita sudah tahu, kan? Nah, inilah, oke, inilah hal di Asia yang membuat saya, oke? Orang Asia, banyak dari mereka, hampir semuanya, apa itu, sekitar 90%, terkena Asian flush, oke? Anda tidak perlu laboratorium untuk memberi tahu Anda bahwa alkohol tidak baik untuk Anda jika setiap kali Anda minum satu atau dua gelas, Anda akan memerah. Tubuh Anda mengatakan bahwa saya tidak dapat memproses racun yang Anda masukkan ke dalam tubuh saya. Namun, kita terus menenggaknya. Seperti, tidakkah itu cukup? Anda tidak perlu Dokter Bedah Umum untuk memberitahu Anda tentang hal ini. Seperti, itu ada di wajahmu, bro.

Jeremy Au:

Nah, maksud saya, ketika Anda mengatakannya seperti itu, saya pikir itu jauh lebih jelas sekarang dan mudah-mudahan seseorang yang mendengarkan semacam ini akan lebih banyak mengklik. Hanya saja, Anda tahu, jika Anda bertanya kepada saya tiga tahun yang lalu, saya akan menjawab, oh ya, segelas anggur adalah apa yang dikatakan oleh ilmu pengetahuan. Saya tahu bahwa saya merasa tidak enak untuk mengatakan hal itu karena sebenarnya bukan itu yang dikatakan oleh ilmu pengetahuan, tetapi, Anda tahu, itu adalah persepsi tentang apa yang dikatakan oleh ilmu pengetahuan, bukan? dan, Anda tahu, ini sangat sulit. Maksud saya, bagian lainnya adalah seperti makanan olahan, bukan? Maksud saya, Anda tahu, Anda membuka bungkusnya dan hanya tertulis "organik". Ada banyak kata yang berbeda, kata kunci di sana, dan dia seperti, oh, ya. Dan kemudian Anda mulai memprosesnya, Anda mulai membacanya. Dan dia seperti, oke, sekarang. Ada banyak kata di sini yang, Anda tahu, alami tidak memiliki dasar.

Nir Eyal:

Itu, kau benar. Menurut saya, itu adalah kompetisi yang tidak adil. Ketika Anda mendengar label, ketika Anda melihat label pada kemasan yang bertuliskan Gula Tebu Organik. Atau, Anda tahu, Jus Tebu Kering Organik. Benar kan? Itu gula. Jadi, itu, itu, saya pikir itu harus ditegaskan. Itu, itu tidak adil. Itu jelas menipu dan Anda terlalu sering melihatnya, atau seperti, selai kacang yang mengandung gram gula, tapi tertulis organik di atasnya. Ah, dan entah bagaimana itu akan membuatnya sehat. Itu mungkin pertarungan yang tidak adil. Ya, aku setuju. Aku setuju. Tapi ada beberapa hal yang jauh lebih jelas, bukan?

Seperti, haruskah kita bersimpati pada orang yang merokok di zaman sekarang ini? Siapa yang tidak, Anda tahu, terutama di Singapura, di Amerika Serikat, kami tidak melakukan hal ini, tapi di Singapura, Anda menaruh gambar-gambar menjijikkan seperti paru-paru hitam dan leher orang yang terkena kanker, seperti menyemburkan cairan kanker ke seluruh gambar. Itu menjijikkan. Dan Anda tidak bisa merokok sebungkus rokok tanpa melihat gambar menjijikkan ini. Dan tetap saja, orang-orang merokok dan saya mengerti bahwa itu membuat ketagihan, bukan? Tentu saja, kita tahu itu membuat ketagihan. Tapi tidak semencandu itu, bukan? Banyak orang yang telah berhenti merokok berkali-kali, namun tetap saja mereka melanjutkannya. Setidaknya, saya harus mengatakan, saya harus memberikan banyak pujian kepada Singapura dari perspektif rekayasa sosial. Salah satu hal favorit saya tentang Singapura adalah kotak-kotaknya, kotak rasa malu, seperti bagaimana Anda membuat para perokok masuk ke dalam kotak rasa malu. Mereka semua berkerumun bersama di dalam kotak kecil yang digambar di lantai dan mereka semua harus saling berdekatan sambil menghirup nafas satu sama lain, namun tetap saja, orang-orang masih merokok. Saya rasa Singapura adalah salah satu negara dengan tingkat perokok per kapita tertinggi di dunia, cukup mengejutkan.

Jeremy Au:

Menurut saya, bagian yang sulit adalah, Anda tahu, nikotin adalah salah satu obat yang luar biasa, maksud saya, ini, ini enak.

Nir Eyal:

Tidak, tidak. Anda tahu, lucu sekali bahwa penelitian menunjukkan bahwa rokok sebenarnya tidak membuat ketagihan seperti yang kita duga. Tapi saya tidak tahu apakah Anda pernah melihat beberapa hal ini, tapi ya, ternyata nikotin tidak membuat ketagihan seperti yang kita duga. Ternyata hal ini lebih kepada persepsi Anda tentang hal tersebut sebagai sesuatu yang membuat ketagihan daripada sebenarnya ketagihan. Itu, alasan mengapa orang menjadi ketagihan, zat seperti nikotin bukanlah efek dari nikotin itu sendiri. Lucu, jika Anda memikirkannya, jika Anda bertanya kepada rata-rata perokok, mengapa Anda merokok, bukankah mereka tahu bahwa merokok itu buruk. Setiap perokok, jika Anda bertanya kepada mereka lebih dari lima menit, mereka semua ingin berhenti. Benar. Saya belum pernah bertemu dengan seorang perokok yang mengatakan, Oh, saya akan senang jika anak saya merokok. Mereka semua tidak ingin anak-anak mereka merokok karena mereka tahu itu buruk bagi mereka. Mereka juga tahu bahwa itu buruk bagi mereka. Namun jika Anda bertanya kepada mereka, oke, mengapa Anda merokok? Alasan pertama adalah orang-orang akan mengatakan bahwa merokok membuat saya rileks. Itu tidak masuk akal. Nikotin adalah stimulan. Nikotin adalah stimulan. Jadi, merokok seharusnya tidak membuat Anda rileks. Merokok justru membuat Anda merasa lega karena tidak perlu mengatakan pada diri sendiri untuk tidak merokok. Jadi cara Anda kecanduan rokok adalah dengan membeli sebungkus rokok. Anda merasa agak bersalah karenanya. Anda berkata, oke, saya akan merokok satu batang dan selesai. Saya tidak akan merokok lagi. Lalu Anda mulai berpikir dan merenungkannya. Oh, saya berharap bisa merokok lagi. Oh, aku ingin tahu bagaimana rasanya. Aku berharap aku bisa melakukannya. Anda mulai berpikir. Dan itu adalah dorongan Oh, ayolah, biarkan aku merokok. Bahwa aku akhirnya bisa merokok. Dan tentu saja, apa yang Anda lakukan saat merokok? Anda mengambil napas panjang, kan? Dan itulah yang sebenarnya membuat orang merasa rileks. Itu adalah jeda, oh, saya tidak perlu mengatakan pada diri sendiri "tidak" lagi. Itulah yang membuat orang merasa rileks.

Ada sebuah penelitian yang sangat bagus di mana mereka mengambil dua kelompok pramugari dan mereka berdua berangkat dari Tel Aviv dan mereka berdua merokok. Kedua kelompok pramugari tersebut merokok. Dan mereka menempatkan satu kelompok pramugari yang merokok dalam penerbangan dari Tel Aviv ke New York, sekitar delapan setengah jam. Kelompok pramugari lainnya, mereka melakukan penerbangan dari Tel Aviv ke London. Oke, sekitar setengah dari jarak tersebut, mereka meminta para pramugari ini setiap 30 menit untuk menilai seberapa banyak mereka ingin merokok karena, tentu saja, mereka tidak boleh merokok dalam penerbangan.

Jika mereka merokok dalam penerbangan, mereka akan dipecat atau dipenjara, bukan? Anda tidak bisa merokok dalam penerbangan lagi. Jadi Anda akan berpikir jika ini semua tentang nikotin, bukan? Inilah yang dikatakan semua orang. Oh, nikotin sangat membuat ketagihan. Itu sebabnya saya tidak bisa berhenti merokok. Anda akan berpikir bahwa ketika tubuh memetabolisme nikotin, mereka berdua akan menginginkan rokok lagi dalam waktu yang sama, bukan? Seperti tiga jam, empat jam setelah rokok terakhir mereka, wah, mereka berdua benar-benar ingin merokok. Tapi bukan itu yang terjadi. Yang terjadi dalam penelitian ini adalah ketika kelompok pramugari yang mendarat di London melaporkan keinginan yang sangat tinggi, ketika itu, pada saat yang sama ketika kelompok pramugari yang sedang dalam perjalanan menuju New York berada di atas Samudra Atlantik dan mereka tidak bisa merokok, mereka melaporkan keinginan yang sangat rendah.

Mengapa hal itu bisa terjadi? Ternyata kedua kelompok tidak mengalami craving yang sama pada waktu yang sama. Mereka mengalami tingkat keinginan yang tinggi 30 menit sebelum pendaratan. Bagi kedua kelompok, tidak masalah berapa lama waktu yang telah berlalu. Yang penting adalah berapa lama waktu hingga asap berikutnya membuktikan apa yang baru saja saya katakan sebelumnya, bukan? Bahwa ini semua tentang, Oh, ayolah, segera turun dari pesawat. Turun dari pesawat. Aku ingin merokok. Aku ingin merokok. Aku ingin merokok. Saya bisa merokok dibandingkan ketika mereka, ketika pramugari yang pergi ke New York tahu bahwa tidak ada pilihan lain, mereka bisa merokok setelah tiga jam. Mereka masih memiliki empat jam tersisa dalam penerbangan. Mereka bahkan tidak memikirkannya. Itu bahkan bukan sebuah pilihan. Mereka tahu mereka akan dipecat. Mereka tidak melaporkan keinginan untuk merokok. Jadi, ini adalah contoh yang bagus tentang bagaimana cerita tentang nikotin yang menyebabkan kita menjadi kecanduan ini sedikit terlalu disederhanakan.

Nir Eyal:

Ini lebih banyak tentang cara pikiran memainkan trik-trik ini pada kita.

Jeremy Au:

Itu sangat menarik karena ketika Anda membicarakannya, Anda tahu, Anda mengingatkan saya pada ajaran Buddha, yang mengajarkan bahwa, tidak memiliki sesuatu yang menyebabkan masalah adalah Anda menginginkan sesuatu yang sebenarnya adalah masalah di sini. Jadi saya pikir itu menarik.

Nir Eyal:

Sangat Buddhis. Ya. Apa yang dikatakannya? Saya tidak ingat apakah itu pepatah Buddha. Saya tidak tahu itu ditujukan untuk siapa. Tapi salah satu kutipan favorit saya, saya harus mencarinya, adalah bahwa orang kaya bukanlah orang yang memiliki segalanya, tapi orang yang tidak menginginkan apa-apa. Filosofi yang sangat Buddhis, bukan? Bahwa persepsi tentang kekayaan, tentang keinginan, itulah masalahnya. Bukan itu, Anda benar-benar kaya ketika Anda tidak menginginkan apa-apa.

Jeremy Au:

Ya. Sekarang, saya sedang mendengarkan podcast dari Dr. K, seorang psikolog. Pandangannya, ia mengatakan bahwa dalam agama Hindu, klaimnya adalah bahwa, Anda tahu, banyak orang yang naik tingkat dan mencapai tingkat Nirwana adalah raja dan pangeran. Dan alasannya adalah karena sebagai raja dan pangeran, mereka selalu memiliki segalanya. Dan begitu mereka memiliki segalanya dan menyadari bahwa mereka masih tidak bahagia, akibatnya, mereka akan melakukan langkah alamiah berikutnya untuk mencari tahu mengapa mereka begitu tidak bahagia, meskipun mereka memiliki segalanya. Jadi saya pikir itu adalah perumpamaan yang menarik, setidaknya.

Nir Eyal:

Sangat menarik. Dan sebuah pelajaran yang bagus untuk kita hari ini karena bagi kebanyakan orang, tentu saja yang tinggal di Singapura, dan kebanyakan orang, sebagian besar orang yang tinggal di, di Amerika atau di seluruh dunia industri, kita hidup hari ini lebih baik daripada para pangeran dan, raja-raja 200 tahun yang lalu. Kita tentu saja hidup lebih baik dari mereka. Sebagian besar dari kita tidak memiliki parasit. Kita punya pipa ledeng dalam ruangan. eh, Kita punya banyak hal. Kita bisa pergi ke toko kelontong kapanpun kita lapar. Kami tidak mengalami kelaparan. Jadi ya, hidup kita adalah jenis eksistensi yang, jangankan hal-hal seperti berbicara, Anda tahu, saya di Singapura, Anda di New York, Anda tahu, memiliki layar ajaib yang bisa kita gunakan untuk berbicara, atau fakta bahwa kita bisa terbang di angkasa dengan tabung yang kecepatannya hampir sama dengan kecepatan suara, maksud saya, hal ini pasti membuat mereka takjub. Namun tetap saja, kita sering merasa tidak puas dan bukan karena kita tidak memiliki cukup, tetapi karena perbandingan adalah pencuri sukacita, bukan? Bagaimana orang lain memiliki lebih banyak. Itulah yang membuat kita terus menginginkan dan mendambakan dan bernafsu dan menginginkan. Padahal, sebaliknya, jika kita mundur selangkah dan berpikir tentang betapa beruntungnya kita terlahir di sini dan saat ini, kita seharusnya menari-nari di jalanan setiap hari karena betapa beruntungnya kita, tetapi sulit untuk menempatkan hal itu dalam perspektif.

Jeremy Au:

100% setuju. Jadi itu membuat saya sangat penasaran. Apa pendapat Anda tentang resolusi Tahun Baru? Jempol ke atas, jempol ke bawah?

Nir Eyal:

Saya rasa mereka bisa, seperti segala sesuatu, ini tentang bagaimana mereka digunakan. Saya rasa apa yang cenderung kita lakukan dengan resolusi Tahun Baru adalah memvisualisasikan apa yang kita inginkan dan membuat resolusi berdasarkan hal itu. Saya ingin memiliki tubuh yang indah di pantai, jadi saya harus menjadi bugar untuk itu. Itu akan menjadi resolusi Tahun Baru saya. Saya ingin membeli mobil mewah. Jadi resolusi saya adalah menghasilkan lebih banyak uang atau saya ingin memiliki hubungan yang baik dengan keluarga.

Jadi resolusi Tahun Baru saya adalah menghabiskan lebih banyak waktu dengan keluarga saya, yang mana itu bagus, tapi berbahaya karena kita tahu bahwa visualisasi memiliki sisi negatifnya, yaitu ketika Anda menghabiskan waktu untuk memvisualisasikan sebuah hasil, otak Anda akan memberikan hadiah berupa perasaan bahwa Anda telah memilikinya. Dan itu menjadi sangat berbahaya. Jadi inilah mengapa saya bukan penggemar berat hal-hal seperti ini, Anda tahu, mereka melakukan hal ini hari ini, seperti papan visualisasi atau apa sebutannya? seperti papan suasana hati atau, papan manifestasi di mana Anda memotong seperti gambar orang cantik dan orang kaya.

Dan ketika Anda menaruhnya di papan, karena hal-hal itu seharusnya terwujud, itu omong kosong. Jangan lakukan itu. Ternyata cara yang tepat untuk memanifestasikan, cara yang tepat untuk memvisualisasikan, bukanlah memvisualisasikan apa yang Anda inginkan. Cara yang benar adalah memvisualisasikan apa yang akan menghalangi apa yang Anda inginkan. Ini sangat penting. Hal terbaik yang harus dilakukan adalah tidak memvisualisasikan, Oh, saya tidak sabar untuk memiliki perut six-pack dan berada di pantai dan memamerkan betapa bugar dan langsingnya saya. Hal yang perlu Anda bayangkan adalah apa yang akan saya lakukan ketika ada sesuatu yang menghalangi langkah-langkah yang harus saya ambil untuk mencapai tujuan tersebut. Maksudnya, apa yang akan saya lakukan saat saya berada di sebuah pesta dan seseorang menawarkan sepotong kue cokelat ketika saya sedang mencoba untuk berdiet? Itulah yang harus Anda bayangkan. Itulah yang harus Anda rencanakan, apa yang akan saya lakukan ketika ada sesuatu yang menghalangi saya. Itulah cara yang tepat untuk melakukannya. Jadi, hanya berhenti pada mimpi, hasil tanpa mencari tahu apa masukannya, apa yang harus saya lakukan untuk mendapatkan tujuan itu? Maka tentu saja, itulah mengapa Anda gagal. Itulah mengapa sebagian besar orang, apa itu hari berhenti nasional? Seperti tanggal 16 Januari atau semacamnya. Sebenarnya ada hari berhenti nasional karena saat itulah kebanyakan orang meninggalkan resolusi tahun baru mereka, seperti dua minggu setelah tahun baru, karena mereka hanya mengharapkan sesuatu, tapi kemudian mereka tidak menaruhnya di kalender mereka kapan mereka akan melakukan hal tersebut, dan kemudian mereka tidak memikirkan apa yang akan terjadi jika ada sesuatu yang menghalangi tujuan tersebut. Jadi pastikan Anda melakukan ketiganya.

Jeremy Au:

Jadi kita sudah melewati bulan Januari, dan anggap saja seseorang memiliki resolusi baru, dan seperti yang Anda katakan, kebanyakan orang akan berhenti atau tidak membuat kemajuan yang signifikan. Adakah saran tentang cara untuk menyelamatkan atau membangkitkan kembali atau meremajakan lintasan yang mereka inginkan?

Nir Eyal:

Tentu. Ya. Jadi jangan tinggalkan. Biar saya ulangi. Jadi ada dua mentalitas, dan menurut saya yang satu sangat salah dan yang satu sangat benar. Dan satu mentalitas adalah apa yang saya sebut sebagai mentalitas daftar tugas. Mentalitas daftar tugas mengatakan, saya akan menaruh semua impian dan aspirasi saya dalam sebuah daftar yang besar dan panjang, dan suatu hari nanti semua itu akan secara ajaib datang kepada saya. Dan siapa pun yang telah mencapai sesuatu tahu bahwa hal itu tidak akan terjadi. Oke, memang bukan seperti itu cara kerja kehidupan.

Apa yang harus Anda lakukan, dan pada kenyataannya, hal itu sebenarnya membuat Anda gila karena ketika Anda memiliki daftar panjang yang berisi semua hal yang belum Anda capai, semua impian, semua aspirasi tanpa batasan, bukan? Daftar yang harus dilakukan tidak memiliki batasan. Anda selalu bisa menambahkannya lagi dan lagi. Jadi, apa yang terjadi setiap hari ketika Anda melihat daftar ini dan melihat semua hal yang belum Anda capai, pecundang. Dan pada kenyataannya, hal ini membuat Anda semakin kecil kemungkinannya untuk mencapai tujuan Anda karena setiap hari Anda melihat daftar hal-hal yang belum Anda lakukan. Dan itulah mengapa Anda mendengar orang-orang bangun di usia empat puluhan atau lima puluhan dan berkata, Oh, sudah jadi apa saya sekarang? Saya mengalami krisis paruh baya karena saya pikir saya bisa melakukan jauh lebih baik dalam hidup. Itu karena Anda baru saja menuliskan apa yang Anda inginkan. Anda tidak menuliskan kapan Anda akan mendapatkan apa yang Anda inginkan. Jadi cara yang tepat untuk melakukannya bukanlah mentalitas daftar tugas. Ini adalah mentalitas kotak waktu.

Mentalitas kotak waktu adalah ketika kita mengubah mimpi-mimpi itu menjadi waktu. Kita mengubah nilai-nilai kita menjadi waktu. Jadi, gunakanlah kalender Anda. Jadi, menuliskan segala sesuatunya itu bagus. Keluarkan dari otak Anda. Taruh di aplikasi atau selembar kertas. Bagus. Tapi itu langkah pertama, kan? Langkah kedua adalah menaruhnya di kalender Anda. Jadi jika Anda mengatakan, saya ingin menurunkan berat badan. Oke, bagus. Kapan Anda akan merencanakan waktu dalam hari Anda untuk memasak makanan sehat yang dibatasi kalori?

Kapan Anda akan meluangkan waktu untuk berolahraga, bukan? Itu harus ada di kalender Anda. Jika sudah ada di kalender Anda, itu hanya akan tetap ada di daftar tugas Anda. Itu tidak akan pernah terjadi. Jadi, itulah bagian penting dari cara saya menyelamatkan resolusi tahun baru ini untuk mengetahui, oke, apa yang Anda inginkan dan di mana waktunya di kalender Anda? Jika tidak ada di kalender Anda, Anda belum benar-benar berkomitmen. Itu hanya sebuah aspirasi, bukan? Semoga berhasil. Itu tidak akan terjadi. Itu harus ada dalam jadwal Anda, apakah itu hubungan yang lebih baik dengan keluarga Anda, apakah itu bekerja pada bisnis yang telah Anda rencanakan, apakah itu menulis buku yang ingin Anda tulis, apakah itu menjadi lebih bugar, apa pun itu, itu harus memiliki tempat yang pasti dalam jadwal Anda.

Jeremy Au:

Ya. Dan Anda tahu, resolusi tahun pertama adalah berolahraga, seperti yang Anda katakan, menurunkan berat badan. Kedua hal tersebut merupakan gabungan dari sebagian besar resolusi Anda. Jadi apakah ada, saya tidak tahu apa istilahnya, template atau Anda tahu, jenis slot atau jadwal atau rutinitas yang Anda rekomendasikan untuk kelompok aspirasi ini.

Nir Eyal:

Ya, maksud saya, saya berharap saya bisa memberikan semacam solusi ajaib dan tidak ada solusi ajaib. Mungkin, mungkin kepraktisannya tidak begitu disadari oleh banyak orang, tapi pada akhirnya, saya benci mengatakannya pada kalian, tapi jika kalian ingin menurunkan berat badan, hanya ada satu cara. Anda harus membatasi kalori. Maaf. Maksudku, kau tahu, oke, baiklah. Mungkin ada, Anda bisa minum obat jika Anda berada dalam situasi yang sangat buruk. Anda tahu, kita punya Ozempic dan semua jenis obat baru yang mahal, dan ketika Anda berhenti minum obat itu, coba tebak apa yang terjadi? Semua berat badan kembali lagi. Jadi, Anda tahu, selalu ada harga untuk segala sesuatu, tapi penurunan berat badan jangka panjang hanya terjadi jika kita membatasi kalori. Itu satu-satunya cara. Jadi apa yang saya lakukan, saya akan memberi tahu Anda apa yang sebenarnya saya lakukan, bukan? Jadi, ketika saya kembali dari Amerika, ketika saya berkunjung untuk merayakan Thanksgiving di bulan November, berat badan saya bertambah sekitar tujuh kilogram karena makanan Amerika sangat menggemukkan dan kota-kota di Amerika tidak bisa dilalui dengan berjalan kaki.

Jadi tidak seperti Singapura, di mana saya berjalan kaki, Anda tahu, 15.000 langkah per hari dengan mudah, di Amerika, saya mungkin hanya bisa berjalan kaki empat atau lima langkah jika saya tidak pergi ke gym, dan hampir setiap hari saya tidak pergi ke gym karena kami bersama keluarga. Jadi berat badan saya bertambah sekitar tujuh kilogram ketika saya kembali ke Singapura. Jadi apa yang saya lakukan?

Saya mengeluarkan aplikasi saya, bukan? Ada di layar beranda saya. Saya bisa menunjukkannya kepada Anda di sini. Ini dia. Ini disebut Carb Manager. Dan apa yang saya lakukan setiap hari? Saya memasukkan apa yang saya makan, seperti ke kalori. Jadi itulah satu-satunya cara yang saya temukan untuk setidaknya ketika saya, dalam periode waktu ini, ketika saya perlu, Anda tahu, kembali ke, Anda tahu, kisaran saya yang saya rasa nyaman, saya harus melacak kalori dan saya kehilangan sekitar satu pon seminggu. Jadi sekitar setengah kilo. Jadi seminggu, jangan lebih cepat dari itu karena itu tidak berkelanjutan, tapi saya benar-benar melacak semua yang saya makan. Dan jika saya tidak mengalami defisit kalori dan aplikasi akan memberi tahu Anda, tidak semua orang tahu berapa defisit kalori mereka, tapi aplikasi akan memberi tahu Anda, oke, ini dia, inilah yang disebut stasis, ini dia yang disebut stasis, jika Anda ingin menjaga berat badan, inilah jumlah kalori yang Anda makan, dan Anda ingin, Anda tahu, mungkin 10, 15 persen di bawahnya, jauh lebih banyak daripada itu, dan berat badan Anda akan turun dengan cepat dan berat badan Anda akan naik lagi. Sesederhana itu. Caranya adalah dengan pembatasan kalori. Nah, salah satu trik dari pembatasan kalori adalah Anda bisa berolahraga agar bisa makan lebih banyak.

Jadi itulah yang saya lakukan. Salah satu hal yang saya sukai dari tinggal di Singapura adalah kota ini sangat indah dan bisa dilalui dengan berjalan kaki. Jadi saya sangat suka berjalan kaki. Jadi saya akan memasukkan ke dalam diri saya, jika saya mencoba untuk menurunkan berat badan, saya akan melakukan 15.000 langkah secara teratur, dan mungkin saya akan meningkatkannya menjadi 20 atau 25.000 langkah, terutama pada akhir pekan. Saya sangat suka berjalan kaki. Dan itu benar-benar seperti, bagi saya, tujuan olahraga, seperti tujuan olahraga bagi saya bukanlah untuk mendapatkan otot yang besar. Melainkan agar saya bisa makan lebih banyak. Dan untuk menempatkannya secara proporsional, ngomong-ngomong, orang-orang tidak menyadari betapa kalorinya makanan, bukan? Jadi, berjalan kaki sejauh satu mil setara dengan satu buah apel. Benar kan? Jadi, jadi Anda tidak bisa menjadi gila, kan?

Dan inilah alasannya, mengapa orang-orang yang tidak melacak kalori mereka, dan kemudian melakukan semacam acara atletik besar, menurut saya, kebanyakan orang yang saya kenal yang pernah lari maraton akan menjadi lebih berat setelah maraton karena olahraga membuat Anda lapar. Tubuh Anda tidak bodoh. Jika Anda mulai mengeluarkan lebih banyak kalori, tubuh Anda akan mengeluarkan lebih banyak ghrelin, hormon lapar yang akan memberi tahu Anda, Hei, kita mengeluarkan lebih banyak kalori. Anda perlu makan lebih banyak. Tapi orang-orang berpikir, Oh, ya, Anda tahu, saya sudah berolahraga pagi ini. Saya berlari apa saja, 10K pagi ini. Aku berhak untuk makan. Inilah yang disebut dengan moral licensing. Itu terjadi ketika Anda bagus di satu bidang. Ini seperti menekan balon, kan? Anda mencoba menekan salah satu ujung balon. Apa yang terjadi? Itu muncul di ujung yang lain, kan? Jadi, lihat, saya sangat baik dalam berolahraga. Jadi itu berarti aku bisa makan banyak. Dan karena mereka tidak melacak kalori mereka, mereka tidak hanya makan sedikit. Mereka makan lebih banyak. Jadi mereka, mereka menambahkan, Anda tahu, 200, 300, 400 kalori setiap hari. Nah, Anda tahu, 3.500 kalori adalah satu pon. Dan mereka akhirnya menambah berat badan mereka. Dan memang benar, jika Anda ingin kurus atau ingin gemuk, rumusnya bukan melakukan sesuatu selama satu atau dua minggu. Alasan orang-orang seusia saya melihat tubuh mereka dan berkata, Ya Tuhan, bagaimana ini bisa terjadi? Itu bukan karena berat badan mereka naik 20, 30, 40 kilogram dalam semalam. Itu karena setiap bulannya mereka bertambah satu kilogram. Semua orang bisa menambah berat badan satu kilo dalam sebulan. Itu mudah. Itu seperti Anda makan roti bakar kaya ekstra atau terlalu banyak minum kopis. Itu mudahnya seratus kalori per hari. Dan itu akan menjadi satu kilo atau lebih per bulan. Mudah sekali. Jadi apa yang terjadi?

Oke. Nah, itu 12 kilo ekstra per tahun. Dan kemudian lebih dari satu dekade, kan? Seperti itu mulai menumpuk dan kemudian Anda melihat ke belakang dan berkata, Ya ampun, bagaimana ini bisa terjadi? Dan itu sama halnya dengan menurunkan berat badan. Ini adalah proses yang lambat dan bertahap. Jadi masalahnya bukan karena orang tidak tahu cara menurunkan berat badan dan menjadi bugar. Masalahnya adalah butuh waktu yang sangat lama. Jadi itulah mantra yang terus saya ulangi pada diri saya sendiri ketika saya ingin berhenti. Saat saya ingin menyerah pada sesuatu, mantra yang terus saya ulang-ulang pada diri saya adalah konsistensi atas intensitas. Konsistensi di atas intensitas. Anda berbicara tentang resolusi tahun baru sebelumnya, resolusi tahun baru. Apa yang terjadi ketika Anda membuat resolusi tahun baru?

Kebanyakan orang, pada tanggal 2 Januari, mereka berada di gym, berkeringat seperti orang gila, mengayuh sepeda secepat mungkin, berlari di atas treadmill secepat mungkin. Itulah intensitas. Itu tidak akan membawa Anda ke mana-mana, bukan? Yang akan membawa Anda ke suatu tempat adalah konsistensi. Hal ini tidak hanya muncul pada tanggal 2 Januari, tapi juga tanggal 3, 4, 5, dan sepanjang tahun, secara konsisten melakukan pekerjaan kecil itu. Itulah yang akan membawa Anda ke tempat yang Anda inginkan.