"Historically in Singapore, we have always wanted our politicians to be predictable. However, Lawrence Wong's savviness with social media shows he understands that in today's age, garnering votes requires seeming like a human being. Part of convincing people to support you is to show them that you can play the guitar." - Jean Hew
"Moving online means you inevitably have to deal with ads and sponsorships, which sparks conversations about how they might affect your editorial values. It was a gamble thinking about whether the average Singaporean reader would be willing to pay for quality, slow journalism, but the core of making journalism work today is bringing in money in a way that does not compromise your offerings." - Jean Hew
"When thinking about the worst things that could happen before releasing the podcast, I worried about getting “POFMA”-ed or politicians claiming it was an inaccurate representation of the PAP or Lawrence Wong. However, we went into the project with the intention of creating a balanced narrative and a fair, multifaceted portrayal of somebody we did not have direct access to." - Jean Hew
Jean Hew explains how The Neighbourhood Boy, Jom's podcast series on Prime Minister Lawrence Wong, was made over three years. The team picked the subject because Wong had just been named the next PM, and Sudhir and economist Donald Low could speak about his early years. Most interviewees described a guai, down-to-earth technocrat, while Low alone saw him as a PM frontrunner. Each episode went through about 15 drafts, and recording paused when the general election was called, which revealed a more political side of Wong. When the planned narrator withdrew, Jean became host, aiming for a kopi-chat tone. She covers the feedback, including requests for more criticism of the PAP, and why most of her 20-plus interviewees felt Singapore is on the right track.
Jean Hew was the first employee and head of research at Jom, a weekly digital magazine covering arts, culture, politics, business, technology and more in Singapore. She is the host, producer and co-author of Jom's podcast on prime minister Lawrence Wong, titled "The Neighbourhood Boy". She now works in corporate investigative research.
Jean Hew’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jean-hew/
Jom: https://www.linkedin.com/company/jom-media-mag/
00:00 Introduction
01:43 Stumbling into journalism
05:08 Why philosophy fits journalism
07:42 Joining Jom when it had nothing
09:49 Year one and the editorial boot camp
12:22 Carrie Bradshaw and paying for journalism
16:14 Why a podcast, and why Lawrence Wong
18:58 Born on reclaimed land, and very guai
21:19 "I don't care about being sweet"
24:08 How the GE changed the script
28:15 Coffee in Siem Reap, and becoming the host
32:13 Gossiping about the Prime Minister
35:31 Launch nerves and letting go
38:52 How it was received
41:31 Is Singapore on the right track?
43:38 Being brave
45:06 Three takeaways
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Meet Jean Hew
Jeremy Au: Hey, Jean. Really excited to have you on the show.
Jean Hew: Thank you for having me.
Jeremy Au: You're a podcast veteran by now, having produced a podcast series on our Prime Minister Lawrence Wong, which is such an interesting piece. But you're also on the founding team of Jom, a fresh, hungry, growing journalism business by Sudhir, who has been our guest twice on the BRAVE podcast. So I'm really excited to hear your story. Could you share a little bit about yourself with those who have not yet met you?
Jean Hew: Sure. My name is Jean. I started out doing curation at an arts organization, then I went on to do journalism, and now I work at a risk advisory firm doing corporate investigative research.
It may sound like these industries are quite different, but I would say the common thread across all of my work is research and writing. It's just a matter of what kind of research, and what kind of writing is used to convey that research, to contribute towards what kind of product, for what kind of target audience.
Stumbling Into Journalism
Jean Hew: I stumbled my way into journalism. I had no intention of joining the industry. It started because I wrote an essay that went into a booklet accompanying an art piece when I was at that first company doing curation. The essay was edited by an arts editor, and after reading my piece she said, "Hey, have you ever considered a career in journalism? I think you would be really well-suited for it."
I was quite surprised, because it had never crossed my mind. In the four years I was in university, I didn't take a single journalism class. Not because I didn't want to; it just didn't occur to me.
She said, "I think you should apply for this new media outfit that this journalist, Sudhir, is creating." I was about to graduate, so I thought, "Sure, why not? I'll just email this guy. Maybe if he wants to, we can meet, have a conversation and see how it goes." I went into it thinking maybe I could be a contributing writer. At the time I was considering pitching stories to Rice and to different magazines, so I thought this was something I could do for this new media outfit.
I emailed Sudhir, we met up, and after our meeting he emailed and said, "Hey, I think we could use a head of research." At that point he had found his two other co-founders, Waye and Charmaine, but nothing was set in stone. We had no name, no email, no bank account, no registration with ACRA. Literally nothing.
So I thought, "Sure. It sounds like an incredible opportunity to work with really seasoned journalists." I was just about to graduate, and I thought, "Okay, this is perfect." It had just fallen into my lap, and it felt right. So I joined them, and we hit the ground running. We launched Jom about seven to eight months into working together.
I was there for three years as head of research. My role evolved as Jom grew and as I wanted to explore different facets of journalism. I started off just helping to get Jom off the ground, and over time I started to write a bit more and explore different kinds of writing: not just essays, but contributing to our weekly column, Singapore This Week, and then working on the podcast and event planning.
At the end of my second year, I told Sudhir, "I think I'm going to leave in about a year. I want to try something different." I'm still very much in the early stages of my career, so I want to try different things, push myself, be a bit more experimental and be curious about different kinds of work. So I left after my third year. Then I did a little side quest: I got my yoga teacher training certification and taught yoga for about six months while applying for different roles. Earlier this year, I started at the risk advisory firm.
Why Philosophy Fits Journalism
Jeremy Au: Amazing. What a journey. This is so fascinating to me. Did you know that you would do journalism? You were doing philosophy, reading about, I don't know, Kant, and then journalism. How did you decide this was something worth joining?
Jean Hew: When I was in school, the area of philosophy I was most interested in was the philosophy of aesthetics, and I was very keen on working in the arts world. I took classes like Buddhist art and exhibition design, and I was particularly interested in curation. I thought that was what I was preparing myself to do. That's why my first internship was as a curatorial intern, and then I joined that company part-time while I was finishing my last semester.
But when that editor told me, "I think you'd be very well-suited for journalism," it opened my mind to that possibility. It just hadn't occurred to me; it's not that I wasn't interested. I also really trusted the editor. She's really experienced. And I was drawn to writing and to research.
In my time doing curatorial research, I was doing a lot of on-the-ground work. I don't want to call it investigations, but I guess it was kind of investigations. I was walking around Jalan Besar for two months, talking to strangers, talking to whoever was willing to talk to me, talking to artists. I really enjoyed that process of immersing myself in a space or a topic, trying to talk to anybody in that area and learning from them. I enjoyed the human connection and the conversation, and I thought journalism would give me a good opportunity to do exactly that: talk to people, hear their stories and try to convey those stories in a particular way. So it all made sense.
I wouldn't say philosophy is that far from journalism. There are a lot of transferable skills: reading, writing, critical thinking, organizing your thoughts, making a sound argument. Those are skills I use all the time, every day.
Joining a Brand-New Outfit
Jeremy Au: It's one thing to say, "Okay, journalism is something I'm interested in." It's another thing to join a brand-new outfit. J-O-M. What is Jom? What was it like to say, "Hey, this is something I want to sign up for"?
Jean Hew: I was really drawn to the opportunity to work with the three co-founders. They're incredibly experienced. Sudhir, at that point, had been writing for as long as I've been alive.
Jeremy Au: Old man Sudhir.
Jean Hew: Yes. And Waye, I think, had also been working for about as long as I've been alive. Charmaine is incredibly accomplished. The opportunity to work so closely with such experienced, seasoned journalists doesn't present itself all the time.
But also, when I met them, I thought they were kind, really respectful and very candid. The first time I met Sudhir, he said, "I'm figuring it out. I don't actually know 100% what I'm doing, but I want to create a team that I can work together with." I appreciated that candor and that honesty, and I felt like I could trust them. My gut instinct was right. Even though I was so much more junior than all of them, they were very accepting of and receptive to my ideas. They never dismissed me, and I learned so much from them in my three years there. So it did feel like a bit of a leap, but I'm very happy I took it.
Jeremy Au: Were your parents like, "Oh, you could have joined The Straits Times or The Business Times"?
Jean Hew: Not at all. My parents are very open-minded. They knew I was doing something that, first of all, I was interested in and passionate about, but that also aligned with my strengths. So it didn't feel like I was going against the grain or forcing myself to fit any kind of mold. They were very happy for me to make my own choices. They trust me, and I appreciate that.
Year One at Jom
Jeremy Au: Amazing. And there you are in that new build. What's it like being on the inside? Because from the outside, I'm like, "Okay, Sudhir's a cool guy: wise, thoughtful, considerate." He's writing every day, and then I just get the emails.
Jean Hew: Love that.
Jeremy Au: So I don't know how the sausage is made. What was it like inside this new build in year one, for example?
Jean Hew: In year one, at the beginning, when we started?
Jeremy Au: At the beginning, for you.
Jean Hew: When we started, it was so exciting. Like I mentioned, when I joined, we had nothing. No name, nothing. A really blank slate. We started with an editorial boot camp. We had all these readings about different approaches to journalism: how print media has changed over the years, how moving online has shaped journalism globally, what it means to ask people to pay us a monthly subscription fee, and how that business model might affect our offerings. So the first stage was really ideation and brainstorming, and then nailing down the editorial values we wanted to hold ourselves to. That was a very fun process. We were also getting to know each other, because none of us had ever worked together.
It was also during that time that the seed of the podcast idea was planted. We were discussing what kinds of offerings we wanted for our subscribers. Apart from the core offerings of the essay, the weekly column and the newsletter, what other, maybe more short-term, projects did we want to develop on the site? We discussed long-form video, short-form video and podcasting, and what kind of podcast we would want to make.
At the time, I had a little bit of prior experience. I had done some creative producing before Jom, including producing a couple of podcasts for a local comedian and influencer. I also just enjoy listening to podcasts, so I said, "If we have a podcast arm, I would love to spearhead it." And they said, "Sure. Go for it." It was only about a year after that that we started to discuss a podcast series more seriously. We were brainstorming ideas for different subjects, and then Lawrence Wong came about.
Carrie Bradshaw and the Business of Journalism
Jeremy Au: Wow. So much to unpack there. Before we talk about the podcast about Lawrence Wong, you mentioned that journalism is changing. How do you think it's changing? It's interesting because you have three roles here. You're part of a company that's redefining it. You're also eventually doing a podcast. And you're a consumer of journalism as well, as a Gen Z, I guess. So how do you see that, and what was that conversation like internally?
Jean Hew: Since you bring up the Gen Z of it all, I don't think I'm that Gen Z, actually. I was born in '98, so a bit of a…
Jeremy Au: So an elderly Gen Z?
Jean Hew: Yes, elderly Gen Z, or what some people call the millennial-Gen Z cusp.
Jeremy Au: Oh, wow, okay.
Jean Hew: So during the transition. Not super Gen Z. My first impression of journalism was through 2000s rom-coms.
Jeremy Au: Ah, yes.
Jean Hew: Or even Sex and the City. Carrie Bradshaw was a columnist, and she was earning $4 per word for her weekly column, which is absolutely unheard of. You will never get those rates today. Unless somebody would like to offer me those rates. $4 a word! And then there was Confessions of a Shopaholic and all those 2000s rom-coms where the main protagonist works at a magazine.
As you know, magazines look very different today. Even the big players, all the Condé Nast titles, Vogue, Architectural Digest, Bon Appétit, have had to transition online. Teen Vogue, for example, I believe is completely online. They no longer do print. So that's one of the really big shifts in journalism: moving online.
The moment you move online, you inevitably have to deal with ads. How are you going to bring in money if you're no longer selling physical copies? And the moment you talk about ads, there's a whole conversation about where to place them, how many to place, and who you should and shouldn't allow to advertise. How closely related do the advertisers have to be to your core offering? Then paid sponsorships come into the conversation. How do you navigate paid sponsorships and their potential effect on your editorial values and offerings?
That's something we talked about a lot at Jom. Even before Jom was founded, when Sudhir had the idea to create a media outfit, I believe he already wanted to experiment with a business model of monthly subscriptions. It's quite rare in Singapore to pay for journalism. I don't think Singaporeans are very used to it. I don't want to say Jom is the only one, but I believe it's one of very few media outfits that actually say, "You pay us a monthly fee, and then we're going to give you this." We're very used to The Straits Times, Rice, Mothership, The Online Citizen and things like that. It's free.
So it was definitely a gamble. Would the average Singaporean reader be willing to pay for quality journalism, for slow journalism? That's something Jom is still trying to make work today. I think the core of making journalism work today is how you're going to bring in the money, and how you do it in a way that ideally does not compromise your editorial values and offerings.
Why a Podcast
Jeremy Au: So here you are, being part of the change and observing the change, and somewhere along the line you said you wanted to do a podcast in year one. So why a podcast? Does it blend, or is it different? Stay in your lane: words are for words, voice is for voice, and video is for video.
Jean Hew: Like I mentioned, a lot of print media has had to transition online, and part of that transition is that you have to be on social media. You have to create some kind of video content. And now, increasingly, it seems like you have to have a podcast. For me personally, I just enjoy listening to podcasts. I enjoy long-form content, and I felt it made sense for Jom. Some of our first projects outside the core editorial offerings were a short-form video and then a longer video, so the move to podcasting felt very natural. It felt like the right next step. The only question was: what is the right story to tell?
Why Lawrence Wong
Jeremy Au: Interesting. And why was the right story our dear Prime Minister Lawrence Wong?
Jean Hew: For a number of reasons, but two main ones. The first is that it felt timely. Around the time we were discussing ideas, I believe Lawrence had just been announced as the next PM, but he had not been officially inaugurated yet. When the announcement was made, there was a flurry of essays, short documentaries and deep dives into who Lawrence Wong is. What is his background? Where did he study? What was his family like? Where did he work? I believe it was CNA that produced a short documentary about him. We were watching all of these things, and we thought, "It seems like everybody's asking who he is. Who is he really?"
That combined with the fact that we had a little bit of access. Sudhir went to school with Lawrence Wong, and he also knows Donald Low, the economist who worked with Lawrence when they were both starting out in the civil service. So we thought, "We already have two sources. We have two interviewees who can speak about Lawrence in his early days, before he became the Lawrence Wong." It made sense. Let's follow this thread and see if we can find anybody else around him.
Born on Reclaimed Land
Jeremy Au: Amazing. That makes so much sense. Even today, people are still asking, "Who is Lawrence Wong?" There are a lot of, I don't know what the word is, slogans around him: he's a neighbourhood school boy, he's an ex-civil servant, he's a nice guy. So I'm curious, what were some surprising things you learned about him as you did that early research?
Jean Hew: First of all, one of the things we talked about was that he was the first prime minister to be born on reclaimed land.
Jeremy Au: Oh, wow. That's interesting, actually.
Jean Hew: He grew up in, not Pasir Ris, Marine Parade. Marine Parade was one of the first, I believe the first, land reclamation projects in Singapore. So in that way, Lawrence is very much that classic Singaporean neighbourhood boy, which is how we came to the title of the podcast.
Initially, there wasn't much surprising information. The first few interviewees we spoke with had a picture of him that aligned with my understanding, which is that he's very guai lor.
Jeremy Au: He's very obedient.
Jean Hew: Yes, just an obedient, good guy. One of my favorite interviews was in the first episode, where we interviewed somebody who went to TK Tech, his secondary school. They weren't in the same year; our interviewee was a couple of years older. And he said, "Oh yeah, Lawrence, he's just super guai. He was never at the smoking corner. He never rolled up his sleeves. He didn't wear his singlet." He was just very guai. He studied really hard and was a good guy. Maybe what's more surprising is that I was not really surprised.
Jeremy Au: He strikes you as somebody who was…
Jean Hew: A very classic civil servant. A technocrat. No skeletons in the closet that I know of. His trajectory made a lot of sense.
"I Don't Care About Being Sweet"
Jeremy Au: What's interesting is, for those who knew him, did people know he was destined to become prime minister? Was there some early sign that he could make it all the way to the top?
Jean Hew: Most of the people I spoke with did not expect him to be PM, just because he's very down to earth, at least from the impression they got. What they told me was that he's just a very down-to-earth, very normal guy. Not yaya papaya. Not out there or super gregarious. So a lot of them were quite surprised that he's Prime Minister. He's top dog.
For example, the interviewee I mentioned who went to school with him said that he and his friends weren't surprised when Lawrence became a civil servant. They weren't surprised when he became a minister. But the moment he was announced as being in the running to be PM, they were like, "Oh, whoa, this is big." It was the same for Sudhir, who went to school with Lawrence at Harvard. He also described Lawrence very similarly: a down-to-earth guy, and he wouldn't have expected him to be PM.
The only person who said he really saw Lawrence as a front-runner for PM is Donald. We kept this bit in the podcast. When I was doing my research and trying to find all the people who knew him, and all the quotes about people being surprised, Donald was the only one. I can't remember which publication he told this to, but he said, "Yeah, I've always known that Lawrence is a front-runner," and it made perfect sense. Of the ministers who came into office around the same time as Lawrence, Donald said, "Obviously Lawrence is one of the obvious candidates for PM."
When I asked Donald about it, I said, "I think it's really sweet that you've always seen the potential in him and always believed in him." And he very sharply said, "Oh, I don't care about being sweet. I just want to be right."
Then Donald talked a little bit about how, in Singapore, we're not really looking for incredibly charismatic politicians. We're not looking for Trumps and Obamas, people who can stand on a stage and charm a crowd. We want technocrats. We want people who can do the work, who are very conscientious and intentional, and who are not prone to extremist views or any kind of impulsive decisions or actions. Historically in Singapore, we've always wanted our politicians to be predictable in a way, which I agree with. So Donald was the only person I spoke to who was not surprised.
How the GE Changed the Script
Jeremy Au: That is super interesting. There are almost two different jobs. One is being a civil servant, and I'd say a minister is similar: executing and making decisions around long-term planning, everything the Harvard Kennedy School is good at thinking through. Then there's the other part of the job, which is the politics: winning votes, and winning internal support as well, which is not easy. Those are the two parts I always see. In America, that split is much more obvious. You have government bureaucrats running the different agencies, and then you have politicians who are running for votes. So I'm curious how you see that play out in Singapore.
Jean Hew: Specific to Lawrence, it's actually quite funny. Developing the podcast took us a couple of years, and each episode went through upwards of 15 drafts.
Jeremy Au: Wow.
Jean Hew: Per episode. Things had to be updated because things were happening. I remember we were getting ready to record. We had locked in all the scripts, and I was planning timings with the studio for when we could come in and record, and then suddenly the GE was announced.
Jeremy Au: Oh, the general election.
Jean Hew: And we thought it didn't make sense to go ahead with recording the podcast and pretend the GE didn't happen. That would be weird. So we had to pause everything, let the GE play out, go back to the scripts, rejig everything, and then record.
I'm very glad we did, because the GE really showed us a very different side of Lawrence.
Jeremy Au: Right, a very different side.
Jean Hew: It showed us that he's maybe not just a technocrat. He's actually quite savvy when it comes to the political side, like you said. That political animal, if you will, started to show, and that was very fascinating for all of us to witness, because I don't think we had really seen that side of him. We had seen him be conscientious and steady when COVID was happening. We had seen him be intentional, hold his ground and be empathetic. But we hadn't really seen the side of him that was ready to be firm and let the political side take over. So I think he did manage to show us that he's capable of both.
Jeremy Au: That's also when I discovered that he could play the guitar. I think TikTok was very happy with those moments when he's in his element playing music.
Jean Hew: Yes. We talk a little bit about this in the podcast as well: the side of a politician that has to garner votes might look quite different in 1970s Singapore versus Singapore today. Of course, you still have to do rallies today, but maybe you had to be a bit more gung ho about it back then. You had to be a bit more firm.
Jeremy Au: You're competing against the communists…
Jean Hew: Exactly.
Jeremy Au: …and there are a lot of racial and religious tensions as well. So it's a little bit more like being a street brawler.
Jean Hew: Yes, absolutely. So contextually, what was required from a politician back then might look very different from what's required of a politician today. We talk a bit about Lawrence's savviness with TikTok and social media, the guitar playing and so on. Maybe he really does understand that, in today's age, it's part of garnering votes. It's part of seeming like a human being to people. And part of convincing people to support you is showing them that you can play guitar.
Jeremy Au: And that you like playing guitar, as a normal part of you. You're a human person.
Jean Hew: Exactly. So it's quite interesting how what we want from our politicians, what we expected of them in the 1970s, has evolved a little today.
Coffee in Siem Reap
Jeremy Au: What I find fascinating about this process is that I heard the host, the voice of the podcast series, had dropped out, and you stepped in. So you're the producer, you're the researcher and writer, and you're also the voice, which is a lot. I don't think I would dare to do all three. So I'm curious, how did that happen, and what did you learn from it?
Jean Hew: I came onto the project as a producer. Funnily enough, I told the Jom team at the time, because I was still head of research and busy with editorial things day to day, that I would love to produce it, but I'd like to bring on a team to write and host it. And over time, I ended up hosting and writing it, even though that's what I said I didn't want to do.
Jeremy Au: Incredible. So talented that you can do all three roles.
Jean Hew: No, no, no. But our whole approach to the podcast, not just production-wise but editorially, evolved a lot over the course of three years. When we first came into it, we were very inspired by two podcasts: The Prince by The Economist, which is about Xi Jinping, and The AWARE Saga. We knew we wanted to make a narrative-driven podcast. Not so much conversational, but narrative, very tightly scripted, with interviewees weaving in and out.
Our initial idea was to have a production team that would do the research, organize and run the interviews, and then we would write a script to be read out loud by a very experienced host. That host was incredibly accomplished as a narrator. She had done voice work and been in front of the camera, and she had a lot of experience in vocal performance and reading out scripts. But she had to pull out due to other commitments.
So the production team reflected: maybe it doesn't make sense for us to run the interviews and then have somebody else read the script. If we're going to approach this as a more personal take on Lawrence's story, maybe it doesn't make sense to have another person just jump in, read it and leave. It might feel a bit disjointed.
I remember this very clearly. We were still figuring out what we should do and what our next move should be. Then the Jom team went to Siem Reap for a film festival.
Jeremy Au: Oh, nice.
Jean Hew: On one of the days, Sudhir said, "Hey, do you want to grab coffee before dinner?" And I said, "Sure, let's go get coffee." Then he sat me down and said, "Jean, I think you should host the podcast." And I was like, "So no coffee? What?" It was very surprising.
But he laid out all the reasons why it made sense. If I was the person doing the research and running the interviews, it would make sense for me to host it, especially if we were going to write a script that felt like more of a personal take on Lawrence's story and on the story of Singapore. From a production point of view, I agreed with him. Even though it was a bit scary, and definitely a leap of faith for me, I trust their editorial judgment. So I said, "Okay. If you guys think this is the best way forward for the project, then let's do it."
Gossiping About the Prime Minister
Jeremy Au: A lot of it makes sense. You have the organization and the vision for the production side, and the interest in the topic for the research side. But I'm curious, when you were doing the voice side, did anything come up? For me, I would be in my own head about my own voice. Was it a different experience to be the voice? Or did it feel very natural, because you're just reading what you wrote anyway?
Jean Hew: No, no. It didn't feel like a super natural process. It was definitely still a challenge. We got a director on board who has experience in theater, and I believe she's a voice actor herself as well. I worked quite closely with her to develop the sound and the tone of the podcast.
First, we nailed down what kind of listening experience we wanted to create. There are a lot of different ways you can approach it. You can have a newscaster-type approach, very much "This is what's happening," or a radio-host approach. Eventually, what we decided on was to make the podcast feel like I'm sitting down with you having a coffee and we're gossiping about the Prime Minister.
Jeremy Au: Oh.
Jean Hew: That was the feel we wanted it to have. I'm just telling you, "I heard this thing. Did you know? My friend told me this."
Jeremy Au: Oh, I like that. It's very Singaporean.
Jean Hew: Yes, exactly. We're just drinking kopi, and I'm telling you, "Hey, I know somebody who went to school with him, and he said this, and Lawrence did this or didn't do that." We wanted it to be entertaining in that way, and to feel a lot more intimate than, say, listening to a BBC podcast.
I have no experience in voice acting or any kind of vocal performance. I did theater in school, but that's pretty much it. And we didn't have a lot of time in the studio either. We worked with a really amazing studio called Artwave Studio, and we had five sessions with them, each two hours long. Four episodes, five sessions: we spent four sessions recording the four episodes, and the last session was left for any re-records. So it was super tight. When I went in, we just had to hit the ground running.
But Ellison, our director, was really incredible. She was very good at guiding me through the process and nailing down exactly how something should sound tonally, and whether I should bring up the emotion or tone it down. Recording in a booth is very different from speaking conversationally. You really have to bring up the energy and the emotion, which took me a little while to get used to. And it's always a weird, vulnerable experience listening to your own voice. I don't know if you find that.
Jeremy Au: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jean Hew: It's weird. Not the most natural thing, but super fun.
Launch Nerves and Letting Go
Jeremy Au: And there you are, you've done it. You ideated it with the team. You produced it. You wrote it. Now you've recorded it, and you're going to release it. Were you anxious? Were you excited? And what was the reception like afterwards?
Jean Hew: First of all, it felt very surreal that the podcast was finished. It took us three years from inception to publishing, so I was just very happy the project was reaching completion and I could finally see the end. It felt very surreal at the beginning.
Then, when things started to settle, I started to process the fact that this project, which has so much of me in it, was going to be out in the world for anybody to listen to. It's quite a vulnerable experience. It's always a little bit scary to create public-facing work that anybody can listen to and anybody can comment on. I was quite nervous the week before the podcast came out.
That's also because I'm in the early stages of my career. It's not like I have a really long track record of being established, something to fall back on so that if anything happens, at least I'm more or less set. I'm still very early in my career, and much more junior than everybody else at Jom.
When I was most nervous, I was thinking about the worst things that could happen. Oh God, what if we get “POFMA”-ed? What if politicians come out saying this is an inaccurate representation of the PAP, or of Singapore, or of Lawrence? God forbid Lawrence comes out and says something about it, that he doesn't like it, or that he felt it was unfair to him or an inaccurate portrayal. All of these things could happen. And if, God forbid, we got POFMA'd and my name was in The Straits Times, what if a future employer Googled my name and all these terrible things came up? Very real concerns.
But I took a breather, thought about it, and realized that a lot of people had seen the scripts and read them. We had a focus group. I trust Sudhir and Jom's editorial judgment. We went into the project intending to create a balanced narrative and a fair, multifaceted portrayal. We've done everything we can to make this story as fair and as accurate as we can about somebody we don't have direct access to.
So I thought, okay, I don't want to sit here and catastrophize about the worst things that can happen. Whatever happens, we'll deal with it bit by bit. And all credit to the Jom team, because I also felt that if anything did go awry, I had their support. I wasn't being thrown to the wolves. So I do everything I can to prepare, everything that needs to be done, and then when it's out in the world, if it's out of my hands, it's out of my hands.
How It Was Received
Jeremy Au: And then the podcast releases. What was that like?
Jean Hew: We released it in stages, one episode per week over the course of about a month. So far, the feedback has generally been pretty good. But I don't know, maybe Sudhir is sheltering me from the more terrible things that have been said. But no, I think people found it insightful, which I'm grateful for. That's what we wanted to bring to people.
Some people did feel it was a bit too mild. They said they would have appreciated a little more criticism, not just of Lawrence but of the PAP, and I think that's fair. On the other hand, I've also had people tell me they didn't like that I called him Wong in the podcast. They said we should show a bit more respect and call him PM Wong. So, small editorial things like that.
I'm very happy that a lot of the interviewees featured in the podcast came back saying they enjoyed it and thought it was a balanced narrative. In particular, we featured Gillian Koh from IPS, and she wrote a very, very kind note saying she enjoyed it, that she thought it was a strong pool of interviewees, and that it was a balanced portrayal, which is important to me.
When I did the interviews, I wasn't even 100% sure how their quotes might be woven into the overall story. We had an idea that we wanted a person to speak about a particular thing, but depending on how the interview went, they might say something very insightful that would slot into a discussion about something else. So I completely understand that, from an interviewee's point of view, you don't know how what you say might be used. They're putting a certain level of trust in me, which I really appreciate. So hearing that they were happy with how their quotes were incorporated was a relief, and I was very happy about that.
On the whole, the reception has been pretty good. But as with anything at Jom, we're doing a lot of things for the first time and figuring a lot out as we go, so we're very happy to hear constructive feedback and criticism. We always want to make it better. If we were to do another podcast, there's so much we could bring to it that we learned from this first one. So I'm very happy to receive constructive criticism.
Is Singapore on the Right Track?
Jeremy Au: My second-to-last question: you're also somebody who grew up in Singapore and has a future in Singapore. How has making the podcast changed your view of what it's like to live in Singapore and have a future here, versus what you think still needs to change?
Jean Hew: In the process of creating the podcast, I tried to speak to as many different people as possible. I ran more than 20 interviews, and eventually we only used about six or seven. But I tried to speak to people of all different ages: new mothers, elderly people, young folks, students.
One of the things I always asked at the end of every interview was, "Do you think Singapore is on the right track, and do you think your children will have a better life than you did?" They could have spent the whole interview complaining about different things, but everyone had the same answer: generally, yes. They do think Singapore is on the right track, and they do think their children will have a better life than them.
I think that's a really good signal. Wherever you stand on the political spectrum, and whatever criticisms people might have about living in Singapore, at least from my experience speaking to these people, on the whole people do think they have a good future ahead of them, and that their children do too. I found that insightful and quite heartwarming. There are a lot of things that can be quite difficult about living in Singapore, but knowing that people from different backgrounds and of different ages still believe Singapore can offer them a good life and a good future is, in a way, quite comforting. It makes me a bit less worried.
Being Brave
Jeremy Au: I totally understand. For my last question, could you share a personal story about a time that you've been brave?
Jean Hew: Maybe this is a bit of a cop-out answer, but everything I'm doing in relation to the podcast is very new for me. It's not in my comfort zone at all. We have a couple of events lined up to promote the podcast. And like I mentioned, because it's so centered on me, one of the key narratives is my story alongside Lawrence's story, alongside Singapore's story. So putting myself out there in this very public way is a new challenge for me.
Jeremy Au: Interesting.
Jean Hew: I'm not the most used to selling myself, or selling or promoting a product. So it's new for me. It's exciting, as much as it can be a little uncomfortable at times. But I'm very happy and excited to be sharing this project I've been working on for a very long time, and sharing what Jom can contribute to the media landscape in Singapore.
Jeremy Au: Amazing. So where can people listen to this podcast series?
Jean Hew: You can listen to The Neighbourhood Boy anywhere podcasts are found. We have it on Apple and on Spotify.
Three Takeaways
Jeremy Au: Amazing. On that note, I'd love to summarize three big takeaways.
First, thanks so much for sharing about your early career and your choice to join Jom, a journalism company. It was such a fun way to hear how you went from philosophy to art and aesthetics, to curation, to research and now podcasting, all with that same observer's eye. It's such a wonderful journey, and really inspiring for people who are eyeing journalism as a career or interest.
Second, thanks for sharing what it's like to create a podcast series. It was such a fun behind-the-scenes look at the warm vocals and the writing, to see how the sausage is made. It was a lot of fun to hear about the editorial decisions, the process, and how you reach out to interviewees. A lot of color there.
Lastly, thanks so much for sharing about our Prime Minister Lawrence Wong: what was surprising to you personally, and the comments people had about him as a schoolboy and as an early civil servant. It was also quite interesting to hear some of that color about how Singapore views him, and how Singaporeans view their own future as well. On that note, thank you so much for sharing your experience.
Jean Hew: Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
