"I also just wanna point out how history is sometimes hilarious - because it's literally huge decisions made by a bunch of early 30-year-olds or, late 20s. And I don't know about you, Jeremy, but me at 31 probably shouldn't be making a decision on I don't know, 100 million people." - Gita Sjahrir
"I always say to people, "Please read more and learn more and find out the human story of things," because if not, people are just gonna scam you, man. People are gonna straight up scam you." - Gita Sjahrir
"But David Van Reybrouck, the writer, said, actually the concept of the Dutch taking over Indonesia is very much like a jigsaw puzzle. So it's not that hey, we took over from here to here point, end to end point for the next 350 years." - Gita Sjahrir
Gita Sjahrir, an Indonesian who lived abroad for decades and now lives in Indonesia, joins host Jeremy Au to discuss Revolusi by David Van Reybrouck, which she has read twice. She describes how the book, built on interviews with about 185 people, presents Indonesian independence as the work of ordinary people, including students in the Netherlands. They compare the Dutch VOC and the British East India Company, and trace Singapore's path through Japanese occupation to independence in 1965. Gita covers the 1928 Youth Proclamation that chose Malay as a shared language, the 17 August 1945 proclamation after Japan's surrender, and the book's ship-class metaphor for colonial hierarchy. She argues that learning history beyond short-form content helps people avoid being misled.
00:00 Why history matters: Jeremy and Gita introduce their shared interest in Southeast Asian history and pattern recognition, with independence as the topic.
01:04 Reading Revolusi: Gita explains why she turned to books for hope and why Revolusi by David Van Reybrouck was her top read of the year.
03:36 Four chapters of regional history: Jeremy outlines pre-colonial trade, the colonial era, independence movements and the post-Cold War ASEAN period.
04:53 Ordinary people in the story: The author interviewed about 185 people, from Dutch and Japanese army veterans to activists, showing history as more than good versus bad.
09:47 The 350 years jigsaw: Gita explains that Dutch control came piece by piece, and that Aceh and Bali show people did fight back.
12:19 VOC, East India Company and Raffles: They compare the two trading corporations, Raffles' founding of Singapore as a free port, and the Dutch swap of New Amsterdam for a spice island.
20:22 The 1928 Youth Proclamation: Young people from different islands agree they are one people and choose Malay as a common language.
22:23 Singapore and Japanese occupation: Jeremy describes the fall of British Malaya and Singapore and how Lee Kuan Yew's experience shaped his view on independence.
27:18 Proclaiming independence in 1945: Activists listening to news in Dutch and English declare independence on 17 August 1945, followed by years of fighting with Dutch forces.
34:49 The ship metaphor and unity: Gita describes the book's class-ranked steamship as colonial society, and how nationalists, Islamists and Communists united for sovereignty.
39:17 Takeaways: Gita urges listeners to learn the human story of history to avoid being scammed, and Jeremy notes the shared regional pattern.
Keywords: Indonesia, Indonesian Independence, Revolusi, David Van Reybrouck, Southeast Asian History, Singapore, Dutch East Indies, VOC, Youth Pledge, Decolonization
