Florian Jacques: Gen Z Hybrid vs. Nomad Trends, Surfing Bali Mornings & Rebuilding Founder Mentorship - E228

Florian is the co-founder & CEO of Midstay, a platform helping companies and individuals relocate easily to dreamy locations and work remotely. He is Belgian, formerly a product UX & UI designer and entrepreneur, and graduated from the College of Advertising and Design in Brussels. He founded a music festival in Belgium that reached 20k+ festival goers at the age of 23. He has traveled the world to work with startup founders and helped them reach their business goals with innovative user experiences and visuals. San Francisco, New York, Australia, Barcelona and Southeast Asia are some of the places where he has worked closely with Executives to help them design their product. He is a long-time traveler and remote worker. With a well-rounded blend of technical, design, marketing, and sales skills. He's passionate about all types of communication, art & technology.

Jeremy Au: (00:29)
Florian, really excited to have you on the show. You are a global Nomad, who is building the future of hybrid work and disclosure. Also have Angel invested in your company Midstay. So excited to have you on the show to share your journey and what you've learned from around the world. And for you to introduce yourself right now.
 
Florian Jacques: (00:49)
So, my name is Florian Jacques. I'm coming from Belgium initially a UX, UI designer and very initially a football player that turned into the art fields and creating my career around building my own company in Belgium and making sure that I was building proficient a career, where I was able to travel and work at the same time, which I always found it very important to actually connect with cultures and being inspired, which is one of the main thing you actually looking after being a designer. So I've been studying art in Brussels, dropped out, after third years of University, been getting some opportunities to work in New York, then in San Francisco, than in Australia, for the last five years before COVID, I was traveling in all these countries doing submission to meet some startups. And every year I was coming back to Belgium to organize this music festival that we brought up to 20,000 festival goers. That's a bit about myself, learning by doing. I would say that's pretty much about myself.
 
Jeremy Au: (01:58)
So could you share about how you first started becoming entrepreneurial? Was it with your music festival in Belgium?
 
Florian Jacques: (02:02)
Yes, actually, at the very beginning, there was more because I was injured as a football player. And during that time, I took a year to think about what will bring me happiness and joy on a daily basis. And I think at this time, I was so good, like very attracted by all the game world. And by the fact of doing this, I actually lost a year and I dropped a year at school, my parents told me to not play anymore. And any game to do because that was actually not good for my study. And I ended up keeping the connection with the people I was playing with as a game player. But I was creating some banners on YouTube. So that led me to this graphic career that I get interested about just afterwards. That's where I started, because basically, I started to sell some of these artwork for others team that were actually playing. At this time, we were playing Call of Duty. So it's a pretty famous game. And to keep connected with the team, I created around this game of Call of Duty, I kept the connection by creating the artwork for other teams. And I already started to monetize this artwork. Afterwards, I've been also for sure been very close to my parents that are both entrepreneurs. My father is into accounting and financials. My mother is going to art. She's interactive, I was born into this entrepreneurial mindset, and all the time trying to find ideas to bring it to the world. And I didn't have a thing, my father building this music festival that was 13 years ago, the first time he started and then we did it for 10 years. The last edition was in 2019, just before COVID. And that last edition, I took over the role of director with my brother that actually joined me, my father took a step back because they don't want to push it as far as we want it. And we brought that music festival from 2018 as in 5000 festival goers to the fourth time and more than in 2019, 20,000 festival goers. So pretty interesting learning curve. At this time, I had only 22 years old, managing over 50 managers during the whole year and 500 volunteers doing the three days of music festivals, and learning a lot of different aspects of the entrepreneurial journey and really learning by doing from marketing to artists lineup to forecast to HR. There was interesting, and that’s to learn alot.
 
Jeremy Au: (04:35)
That's amazing. You shared that flexibility and being able to travel and work was something that was important to you from an early stage. So how did that interest, which is something that everybody has, everybody wants to do a business travel and then tack on a few days of holiday. Everybody wants to call it the holiday event of the year? How does that transition to being a global Nomad and for you to be able to have that lifestyle.
 
Florian Jacques: (04:57)
So yes, that's a pretty good question. I think that all came from the fact that I'm very passionate about connecting with people, to me, this is where I got inspired. So it was super important, from the very first day that I was really designing my life around a career where I was able to move and to travel and to work at the same time. This inspired me to create what is no mistake, but I also understood where the friction is the pain. And that's also why, like, as you say, a lot of people are willing to jump into that new lifestyle that no, it's possible with the mainstream of remote work since the pandemic. And I do believe that more and more are willing to do the jump. But there are some fear, about loneliness. Could I settle myself in a new place? Or do I actually quit the thing I have in my current life? Or do I pause them to go into a new life for a few months? So this is, we're trying to solve this issue where a lot of people demand that they are willing to do it, but they're struggling to find the ways of doing it.
 
Jeremy Au: (06:00)
What was your personal experience struggling to change and adapt to the new culture?
 
Florian Jacques: (06:10)
Yes, fun fact actually, we understood it even better. Once a year in Bali, I met my co founder Magnus and for the little story, we are both surfers. And every morning, from six to 8am, we actually chase that lifestyle of like, getting out and making sure that we have in our mind, completely free before studying the work and surfing a few hours in the morning. So that day, there was a very flat day, we are together at this time. We didn't know each other. But you know, when you're at the peak, and you're waiting for a wave, what's happening, when there is no wave of, you are speaking to the people around you. And I actually ended up speaking with Magnus with now my co founder, he was sharing with multiple destination indeed as a digital nomad. And I was myself curious to know what was his pain by moving and traveling and working at the same time? Because I was not really a digital nomad, working from Chile to Thailand to Mexico, I was more working from corporate offices. And I was providing freelancing services to startups that were in San Francisco, New York, Australia, so anything in between three months to six months mission, but still traveling and working and making myself out of that comfort zone that I've created for a few months, and going into that new hub to resettle myself and to recreate this routine. Very interestingly, like the pain was the same, even though the destination were different. So making yourself out of a different destination and moving from one place to the other, you will find all the time the same frictions, which are setting yourself again with some complicity. Knowing about your desires, lifestyle you want to purchase, because if you're moving from one place to the other is to actually purchase a new lifestyle and improve and increase the work life balance you're trying to reach. So this is one thing, this is about lifestyle venues, remarking and trying to bring to the people. And then you have as well, the social bubble, you need to grow yourself as well, professional, your personality. And this is actually the most important. And that's actually what we see as an insight, is that most of the people are feeling lonely after a few weeks or months. And this is where we are bringing the most value I believe with Midstay.
 
Jeremy Au: (08:19)
So why do people feel lonely?
 
Florian Jacques: (08:21)
I do believe that because most of the destinations that people are choosing which are speaking about value, where we're currently operating, but as well, Mexico, South Africa, Portugal, all these places are interesting for people that would like to live there but as well, very interesting, initially for tourists. So there's still this target that is coming in passing by. So most of the time what's happening is that, nomads or remote workers as we call it will actually connect with people, but then they will lose the connection after a few days because they go back in their own country and they are not in their same region. And so that's clearly where we are actually improving these journeys that we connect these people together at around the same period of study. And this is clearly where we're able to decrease the feeling of loneliness because they are not connecting with people that are leaving in a few days, they are actually matching with people that have the same length of stay.
 
Jeremy Au: (09:19)
What's interesting, of course is that it doesn't feel like the world is going to go full digital nomad, which is something that some people were saying two years ago in the middle of the pandemic was, let's all hang out in Bali because if I got to take a call from my dinky one studio apartment and also do it for a new place and surf in the mornings in Bali, meet new people, ensure a bit of loneliness, but everybody's lonely. I think the worst feeling is probably also not going fully back to the office, is a mixture of hybrid. I think most people are going to be spending one, two, three days and a few more days somewhere else. So how does that work out from your perspective? Do you think you'll be more digital nomads or do we be Hybrid, where people will be taking long weekends? How does that future of work look like from a travel/geography perspective?
 
Florian Jacques: (10:07)
I do agree with you, a few years ago, I would say fully in the pandemic, we will bet that everyone will jump into that nomad lifestyle. I do also agree that there are not many people that are willing to go back fully at the office. So there are a few different IDs that are coming out of this new behaviors that we are basically understanding these years after the pandemic, which are mainly most of the companies will be embracing the hybrid way of working. But this is also bringing different frictions and pain for the companies to keep up with the employ engagement, to keep up with the company culture. And indeed, like I do believe that younger generation like Gen Z, and millennials, will be willing to try longer trip, because they are not stuck with a family or they are not stuck with a load. And so they are more flexible. And at this time, we are able to solve them, to solve their pain and to bring them into a longer trip, but then you indeed you have this full team with different layers of demographic in a company. So at this time, this is very interesting, this is a services, we understood that it’s actually seeing quite a nice traction and we are solving a very good pain in the site of the company, is that we bringing the team together to make sure that they are keeping up with the employee engagement by making sure they are able to bring a team together into a team retreat, team at site, cooperate retreat, wherever we call it. This is basically the mix between, vacation, but this is very professional focus. So this is where we are seeing quite a nice value as well as an additional services of needs to serve as well, this target.
 
Jeremy Au: (11:49)
When you discuss all of that, I totally agree that it's a new generation. If you’re like 35. And with a family like me, you're out of the game, because of the kids and everything, I think for the next generation, is going to be the norm. So how does that work out? Do you think people are going to be spending like one, two, three weeks working remotely then going back to the home office, and then they spend one two months and then they head out for a few weeks, is that you see the world going that way?
 
Florian Jacques: (12:17)
What we are currently seeing with our data. And this is really not assuming, it's really what we are seeing is the data we're gathering, we are seeing that actually people in between 25 to 35 are spending 69 days abroad, by living abroad and by working at the same time abroad. This is very interesting indeed to see that for sure it's below 35. We are seeing that this new Gen Z is willing to have better flexibility, is willing to have a better work life balance, and is willing to invest into their mental health compared to a higher salary. These are things that are here and most probably people that are basically in my generation, if I have to reflect myself it is because I've seen my parents being burnouts. And this is like really what happened to this generation coming up guarantee. They don't want to duplicate what they've seen from their parents and are willing to change and to bring some different ways of working and they see that now is possible, so they're willing to embrace that.
 
Jeremy Au: (13:17)
It feels like no matter is a bit too hardcore. And just like the difference between people who like to camp and people who like to glamp, a glamorous camping, the difference being that you carry a backpack and all your food and water, and that one is someone sets the tent up and brings you the water and food. So tell me a little bit more about how you think about how that's going to work out.
 
Florian Jacques: (13:35)
I do believe that there is a big cliche around the digital nomad warding, like Firstly, this is something that we are not really using anymore at Midstay, we like to call it remote workers, giving you a very small Example, my father 55 years old been joining me in Bali for a few months is essential director and he's not reflecting as a digital nomad. He will not be called a digital nomad, seeing himself as a remote worker working from abroad. So this is a very first thing, is that I do believe that digital nomads was a term before COVID. But now that many people are going to do it. Digital nomad is a bit old fashioned, I would say and this is not something most of the people aren't affecting as a digital nomad anymore. Also digital nomad, as we call it, most of the people are thinking that they are working from the medieval age with coconuts. And this is not really the case. We are seeing it all around us here in Bali. This is like so many interesting and inspiring professionals doing business and leading teams around the world. This is not at all the Freelancers we used to have in mind before. So I would say that the very first thing to keep in mind when we speak about this target, which is to me evolving a lot since the pandemic.
 
Jeremy Au: (14:48)
I Appreciate you think that there's a trend that we're seeing, like in the past used to be freelancers who were like engineers, growth hackers, marketers, who was freelancing on various marketplaces. But now I think we're seeing managers who are leading teams and so on, so forth. So what are some myths or misconceptions about being able to do this successfully?
 
Florian Jacques: (15:09)
Misconception is thinking again that this digital nomad’s term are people working from tropical vision or boundaries. This is not at all what's happening. Like very interestingly, if we take a step back, knowing about this history, about this new lifestyle of people working and traveling at the same time, if we take the history and the milestone that this lifestyle has been seeing, we are sticking in 2007, the very first day, and here's the one that we're trying to find WiFi in different geolocation, and they were really struggling, then they were the one that we all know that are the one marketers freelancers that were the one before COVID. And that appeared around 2014. And now there is this mainstream waves, where millions of people are embracing or training, at least this new lifestyle. This is where it's very interesting. I would never have conceptualized or thought about having some friends being digital nomads, but being a lawyer and doing court errands from here. And this is currently happening. Like it's not only business owners that are leading teams, it's also entree from many corporates that are now corporates following this new lifestyle. Why? Because they need to retain their tenants. And most of the tenants are willing to add a specificity, not speaking about a full year living like that. But at least adding that jump out of their routine back to their own country, which I do believe is linked a bit with the brave warrior, because you want to get out of your comfort zone. Once you do that, and you get inspired and you actually meet so many people, that you can maybe get opportunities with. So I do believe that this is also a big and interesting way of getting out of your comfort zone and thriving in different ways, you would not have because you're just sticking to your routine back.
 
Jeremy Au: (16:56)
You talk about how it's important for companies to retain talent. And I think it's interesting, because there's a world where I totally agree that when you're looking for the best talent, you're just looking for them wherever they are, whether that's Jakarta or Malaysia, Philippines. So all of those are new places to handle, at least in the current bear market. It feels like the power is with employers again, which is that people have to show up at office, they have to give FaceTime, could work remotely, maybe from home in the country. But it's an odd thing to be saying like, I'm out in Thailand, Phuket or anywhere in the world, is too far away from the home office. So which companies do you believe are the ones that will adopt hybrid more and which type of companies would adopt it less?
 
Florian Jacques: (17:40)
I think the easy answer would say the tech companies, the ones that were born during the COVID, that did not, never add any office in the past. This is an easy answer. I do believe that a lot of them will align to more for companies that will implement that as a strategy. And come back to what you were saying about indeed, this is recession, some companies are now heading the other hand, and employes needs to come back at the office, even though it's very hard to bring back all the employees back to the office. So I do believe that there is actually another trend that we are currently seeing is that, indeed, you have been laying off a few of your employees. But do you know about the domino effect? Do you know about the fact that it's actually going to impact your internal engagement as well? So do you want to invest into this workforce you've been building and you try to retain. Because indeed, you had to cut off some roles to maintain your growth and your financials, but you mostly need to maintain what makes the engine running. So this is very interesting to see as well, because even though as you mentioned, we know that we are into that new bear market, but this is where actually an interesting side as well, is that it's a completely new, fun way of working and mistaking a lot with the chores that are telling us we need to find new and intangible ways to actually bring more engagement within our team. And this is where the switch from what we knew before. Before it was just stock options and big salaries, now is taking about new intangible way. Why? Because there is inflation as well. Why? Because there is all this anxiety you get during the COVID. And you actually need to find new ways of bringing agonists within a company. So I do believe that everything you said is right. But there is also some different aspects that we sometimes forget to mention. And this is where there is interesting angles to tackle.
 
Jeremy Au: (19:38)
I think one interesting thing, of course, is that there's a dynamic where all companies will have more flexibility. I agree. And some companies had more flexibility than others like tech companies. One thing we are both seeing, of course and we discussed this is that more companies are doing off sites, so they will travel more. I think historically off sites were very boring things that were at the corporate office, and then there'll be a nice dinner at a big resturant in the home off now, I think people working for an office less. So I think people are looking for this like flagship, of sites and retreats, so that the new country, everybody flies out. What do you think about that trend?
 
Florian Jacques: (20:13)
That trend is really interesting. And as you know, we've been finding some insights that actually companies are very interested in, since a few months to actually plan that into entry. And again, to come back to the layout, like they are seeing that they've been laying off a few people, but they need to keep that connections within the team. And they are losing it currently by allowing hybrids, by following remotes. And this is beautiful for a flexibility of up but at the end for the unity of the company, you're losing something and you need to put in place some more initiatives to actually bring back this unity, you had before once you weren't coming every day at the office, which we all know will not come back as before. So indeed, this new projects for companies are very interesting. And I do believe that there is a lot of things to explore still, we like to ask at the beginning, what's the goal of this site, and we really tailor made any of sites based on the company size, but as well, on the goal of the business, either it's a social goal, or whether it's business related goal, we are seeing Leadership Summit, we are seeing annual planning, we are seeing a strategy retreat. And this is all interesting, because you can really combine the leisure and to bring quality of the team together, to actually see some brainstorm happening and to bring the company forward. Because after that they are all recharged. And that's something we've seen.
 
Jeremy Au: (21:34)
Yes, the answer is both, like you said, which is that you can fire your low performers. And you're trying to incentivize and make it a good experience for high performers. So that being said, what do you think from your perspective makes a good offsite versus a terrible retreat?
 
Florian Jacques: (21:49)
I would say that retreats are the ones where, all attendees, or any attendees are actually a sync with what's the goal of the retreat, I do think that's the very first thing. We like to start with a survey, to also bring some Democratic vote and knowing what everyone is actually willing to have and what will bring them happiness and joy within this retreat, what will make that retreat a success for them. So in that way, it's not just a single mind organizing it, it's actually something that you feel as a collaborative project, to me what makes a successful retreat. Otherwise, what's happening if you don't do that, and that's what brings a bad retreat, is that this is all frictions, all un organized and everyone needs to get educated on what's going to be this retreat. And this is taking much more time. And then at the end, you don't have the outcome of what you're actually willing to see afterwards of these retreats, which we know what it is, as a company is not only bringing the people together, is recharging these people to make sure they're performing even better afterwards. And they are actually feeling part of something greater than what they were thinking before. So meaning that they're actually giving as much as they can, to bring that company to the next milestone.
 
Jeremy Au: (23:07)
I 100% agree, I think a great one is hard to achieve. And a bad one can easily happen if you don't have the logistics and had everything all done well. On that note, when you think about all these travel and trends, what do think is something that you think will happen that people don't really agree with you about, what's one thing we believe about the world regarding this future of work that you think makes sense from your perspective, but other people might think is a little crazy.
 
Florian Jacques: (23:34)
I do believe that more and more people will be traveling slowly and going into that life where you can work and travel. I do believe that currently there is a big obstacles, is that the phase is really friction, there is a lot of friction. And it's really like all over the place. And you don't feel comfortable by doing it because you feel and fear, that you won't be as productive as you are back home. So that's really where we are on a mission to bring that platform to make sure that you get everything in one place. Above that, I do believe that the Gen-Z are going to disrupt the whole way of working, they will be part of the workforce in a few years. And they are going to disrupt the workspace for sure, they are already doing it. And they are raising their voice. And currently, that's where we're trying to solve, it's like basically serve this new generation to bring more flexibility either it's abroad, either it's at home, but they are willing to have a bit of flexibility of work and they are willing to connect with like minded remote workers because they feel lonely. And so that's where we are bringing that value for them, where they can really connect and leverage their skills, because we see a lot of companies hiring remote, we sign deal with them, we serve all these platforms that are low employed by hiring, but at the end, people are working from home, either you need to bring by the team together as an off site, or we're allowing them to connect on a platform that allows them to keep growing professionally, Even by not coming into the office every day. And so that's where we are willing to bring value into district a bit, is like basically bringing that walks base in as a field as a workspace, a sense of a workspace, like connected to the platform in that you can also connect with people around you because we are really speaking about real connection and not virtual one, we really strongly believe about that face to face connection, which is necessary, it is super necessary. And you need to keep that happening, aside of your virtual remote job.
 
Jeremy Au: (25:37)
I love what you said about slow Nomad, slowMad, we have new words all the time, hybrid nomads, slow mads.
 
Florian Jacques: (25:50)
SlowMad is getting quite a lot of attention lately. Why? Because there is this whole topic about climate change. And this is very important, people want to not have as biggest impact on the climate by traveling. And so we're seeing that target of remote workers. Other thing that slowMad lifestyle, which means that you're traveling very slow, you're just staying in a place a few months, instead of staying a few days, a few weeks, which means that you're reducing your footprint, and you actually giving back to the local communities. And that is where it's very interesting, where basically you are able to bring your own knowledge as a Western or as another target, but you are able to share this knowledge with different culture. And that is where I do believe in myself, I got inspired, during my old career of traveling, this is where I grew myself the most, then and this is where I feel inspired to the most. So I do believe that staying in a place more than a few days, a few weeks is bringing much more value than people think. And this is a way to create meaningful connections, either with local or either with people that are doing the same lifestyle as you are choosing.
 
Jeremy Au: (26:58)
And on that note, could you share with us about a time that you personally have been brave?
 
Florian Jacques: (27:00)
So yes, I would say that's the time where I was dropping school, having this opportunity to go to New York and that was an internship. So I was not earning any salary. But I always believed that learning by doing, that you're learning. So I prefer to skip school at this time. And I do believe that I did the right choice. And I skipped school and I invested into my education by doing and by learning, next to the standards that were by the way out of where i see. So I do believe that this is where I've been brave, even by knowing internally I was doing the right coose, people around me were telling me like, what are you doing? You're not going to have your diploma, I'm not going to get any certifications. But then at the end, who cares? Like as a UX UI designer, we never ask for any certification to get hired. And deep inside, I knew that I was doing the right thing, even though my parents and my friends are telling me like, you're 20 years old, and you are getting out of your comfort zone, getting out of Belgium to go to New York and then getting another gig in San Francisco. And then what if this stopped, what are you going to do, and hopefully, this never stopped. And if it stopped, I was going to build my own thing, which I'm currently doing. And that was my end goal. Anyway, like being very close to the founders. And making sure that I as a designer, as a Digital Designer, being able to translate their business ideas into visual experience and making sure that the engineering team were able to implement it properly. By doing this role for a few years, I've been learning much more than what I was going to learn at school. And I felt brave for the very first weeks after that, I knew that it was the right choice.
 
Jeremy Au: (28:49)
So what's interesting, of course, is that you said something, which is that you move to a city to be close to founders. I think the view, of course, is that if you're being a slowMad or hybrid or nomad, the thing is, you're at your computer somewhere. And you're probably in Harbor, you're not close to the founders, you're not close to whoever that is that target group of people. You said you're watching them and helping them and learning by being close to them. So how do you figure out that tension? Actually just heard from two different folks, one was a lawyer, and one was venture capitalists. And they felt like people, the next generation, generation Z wasn't learning because they weren't close to their bosses. They weren't close to their peers who are ahead of them. So they didn't feel like that proximity felt, something like that, was missing and therefore slow in their learning. So how do you reconcile that point of view?
 
Florian Jacques: (29:43)
I completely agree this is very contradictory. Like myself, I would not see myself doing it again San Francisco as I did it before, after COVID I think I would not have done it, but I'm very happy I did it before COVID. The thing is that I do understand and I do agree with you the fact that Gen-zed are losing and are missing their mantra. Clearly, what I think as well is that there is no a lot of tools that are allowing you to do remotely. But it's not the same. I agree as well. The thing is that, that's also what we're trying to solve. We know that there is this big thing, we can call it loneliness. But it’s also basically, growing professional. This is very important. As early as we are as young as we are. When we start our career, it's super important to have some people that inspired us to make to the next milestone. I had my people that inspired me in back in San Francisco, I wonder, I would have done without that really earnest, what we trained to do with me today, as we know that this is where we are losing track of that, we try to connect these people together, while they are moving. So as they are moving to different hub, like remote hubs, speaking about different islands, there's still some people around you, but you don't have tool to actually connect with them currently. And so this is currently what we're doing it with a platform of remote workers we built in place this community, where you can find another CTO, another executive that had been working in Amazon for like nine years, and you see that he's actually two streets away that you can connect with him. So this is really something that we try to leverage because we do feel that there is this missing into like connecting with people that can bring you some interesting professional insight to where you can actually learn from it. And again, I think that I've been driven all the time by you know, this quote by Confucius saying that you learning by doing and you actually need to find a job that you like to make sure that you're not going to work anytime of your life, because you don't feel you're working. But again, this is something that if you portrays that, you still need to have the very first element which is like learning by the people around you, that you surround yourself with. And so this is to me like the missing part. And that's where we try to solve it by adding some tools that allows people to connect each other not virtually, but face to face in real.
 
Jeremy Au: (31:58)
When you think about rebuilding mentorship, by founders, by community, by peers, what would you say are some of the challenges that people should be aware of to overcome.
 
Florian Jacques: (32:06)
I think the main blockers to leverage the skills and to connect with people that are able to monitor yourself, and to make you grow professional, is the fact that people tend to connect with people that are speaking the same languages, you probably hear it, I have this French accent. So I'm very close to this French community. And this is in every community of nationalities, they are attending all the time to connect with diverse teams in English, this is completely understandable. You feeling more comfortable, you feeling safer, by being with people that are speaking the same languages. But I do believe this is the main blocker to actually leverage your opportunity, to actually connect with people that can bring you better insights within your own domain, in all fields, because people who are speaking the same language are not, especially in your same fields of expertise. So I do believe that there is this main broker. And that's also what we try to actually bypass by telling people, look, you can also feel comfortable by being with people that are in your same fields. And not only with the people speaking the same language. This is actually where it feels more obvious, because for sure you hear them and it's easier to connect that look, no, we're trying to connect you in another way. And we're seeing that currently, it's happening quite well, where people are looking for other like minded remote workers around their temporary or much less, where they can actually get a meetup, get a coffee, and speaking about virtual coffee, real coffee, this time and brainstorming around subjects that they are experts about.
 
Jeremy Au: (33:35)
Awesome. Thank you so much, Florian. I would love to summarize the three big themes before wrapping up. First of all, thank you so much for that point of view on hybrid versus nomad. And versus SlowMax, which is, the trends about how people are seeing the future of work, and how they want to do things in life. And there's some interesting dynamics around the Gen-Z dynamics as well. The second is, I love what you shared about surfing Bali mornings and thinking about what you need to do. Because those are great opportunities, for example, for you to meet your own co-founder, I think it is a great visual and mental image for how most people see the future of work. And lastly, thank you so much for sharing about what are the biggest challenges for founders today, which is that you know, you build your career by having great mentors and learning by emulating or watching other founders built and helping them with that. And I think the state of the current remote work is that it's still lacking. And it's really interesting for you to acknowledge that but also have made it the mission to rebuild this at a community level. Thank you so much for coming on the brave show.
 
Florian Jacques: (34:37)
Thanks, Jeremy. It was great talking with you.